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C. V. Reynolds Bug-Fix Compilation and Script Fix

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- yes, both.
- iirc, xkas doesn't want to accept absolute parameters for relative branches, so you've got to put labels at the desired addresses, like so:

Code:
; put before "high_priority" section

org $C222B3
lbl_22B3:

org $C222B5
lbl_22B5:

then trivially edit the 3 branches as needed.

orgs are necessary because my code doesn't actually edit the target addresses.

----

- both of these changes are largely untested (or unassembled, as you see here; haha), a big contrast from my released patches.  so unless you're willing to BE the beta tester for these, i'd hold off on putting them in a compilation patch.
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Back. Never think I forgot about this or you all. :3 I think my thunder was "stolen" a couple of times (no offense intended to any peeps). But I still want to finish this. Depression and other business kept me away again. But I have continued working on the project. It's very close to done now. Pretty much I only need to check for quality and errors. I also have updates to the other patches coming up. At least there's something I'll need to change in the bug-fix patch for sure. I MIGHT update the old script fix too. But I've not decided yet. I'm not sure what the point would be once the new one is out. Would anyone still want the older one?

Assassin: I trust in your code enough that I might put it in the patch anyway. I can always change it later. I'm going to play through the game again soon. Seems a good way to test everything. But I admit I still don't understand how to do the assembly thing. "Trivially edit the 3 branches" and "labels" just goes right over my head. I'm a writer, not a coder. ;P But I'll keep looking into this stuff.
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#43
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Hi CV!

(07-21-2020, 05:22 PM)CVReynolds Wrote: I MIGHT update the old script fix too. But I've not decided yet. I'm not sure what the point would be once the new one is out. Would anyone still want the older one?

As others have said in this thread, I like the idea of a basic typo/grammar fix patch for the whole script alongside the bugfix compilation. Two patches, and you have a great pseudo-vanilla FF3us.

(05-18-2020, 06:12 AM)assassin Wrote: - both of these changes are largely untested (or unassembled, as you see here; haha), a big contrast from my released patches.  so unless you're willing to BE the beta tester for these, i'd hold off on putting them in a compilation patch.
(07-21-2020, 05:22 PM)CVReynolds Wrote: Assassin: I trust in your code enough that I might put it in the patch anyway. I can always change it later. I'm going to play through the game again soon. Seems a good way to test everything. But I admit I still don't understand how to do the assembly thing. "Trivially edit the 3 branches" and "labels" just goes right over my head. I'm a writer, not a coder. ;P But I'll keep looking into this stuff.

I am interested as well in the refined vanish/doom & sketch fixes, but I agree with Assassin's suggestion here.
It would be good to see these tested and released as individual patches -- just a little more legwork is needed. I'd like to help if I can.

CV:
See the attached .asm file (zipped) for the new vanish/doom, which has the necessary edits as per Assassin's directions earlier.
I chose the 16 bytes of free space at C2/A65A for the new subroutine "high_priority".  This should be compatible with your own compilation patch.


I'm doing some preliminary testing now, and the fix appears to work as advertised.
I will look at the Fenix Down + Undead tweak next, followed by the sketch fix.

Has anyone else ever done any testing with these?

Assassin:
Once testing is complete, would you interested in releasing the new fixes as patches?
If not, may I release them on your behalf?


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  • CVReynolds (08-07-2020)

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The script-fix is done! After so long, it's ready to launch like a HEAVY TROOPA... Meaning there will be a slight delay, of course. I still need to finish making the readme file. I'll upload it when that's done.

In the meantime, I updated the bug-fix comp. Clap-clap-clap...

Change list:

Updated "Magicite - Strength to Vigor". Yes, my own patch. It seems my old version was a little broken maybe? And nobody realized or told me? Sad

Modified "Grand Stairway". This version doesn't edit the script, so it'll be friendlier to those who don't want the script edited in a bug-fix comp. Yes, I still plan to split the comp into sub-comps at some point. Been working on that a little. Anyway, the only difference is "Water Edge" is erroneously called "Water Skean" in the script in this version.

Removed "Incoherent Gungho" The issue isn't a bug, it's bad translation. I don't think the problem should be fixed this way anymore. Fixing the broken script should suffice in fixing this the right way. My script-fix will address this.

Removed "Shadow Is Not a Girl". Indeed, Shadow isn't a girl. But the problem is with the script, and so I don't think this patch addressed the issue properly. My upcoming script fix will handle this by avoiding gender pronouns in that scene.

I didn't add the Assassin assembly in this update, but I should in the next one. I don't think it'll make the game explode. ;P

If anyone knows of any errors or compatibility problems, please let me know quick. :3

Script-fix update coming soon! See you then.
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Script-Fix ("Translating the Name" Edition) is now uploaded! Thank you to everyone for all the support. I know I'm late for this, but I still wanted to do it. And I wanted to share it with anyone who would want it.

And I'm open for suggestions. Some of the stuff might be awkward to you. I already know that my use of "Deities" might not sit right with everyone. But I didn't want to use Goddesses because one of them is actually named Goddess. Certainly I'm not considering this project closed. I might update it for changes and error fixes anytime. :3
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  • SilentEnigma (08-12-2020)

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Quote:Removed "Incoherent Gungho" The issue isn't a bug, it's bad translation. I don't think the problem should be fixed this way anymore. Fixing the broken script should suffice in fixing this the right way. My script-fix will address this.

you sure?  how does RPGOne's translation handle the dialogue?  preliminary script here:
http://www.skyrender.net/ff6script.txt

if the incoherency is still there, then what are the odds that both Woolsey and Sky Render made a bad translation, when the latter was going out of his way to not rely on the former?

it always seemed odd to me how *both* the with-Strago and sans-Strago conversations were messed up, and then one elegant change could remedy both by bringing instant clarity without rewriting a single word of text.

does the way that the GBA/etc.  remake team chose to approach the incoherency necessarily tell us the true source of the original flaw 13 years prior?

---

EDIT: one thing i was skeptical of is how a single line ("When you were younger you hunted Hidon [...]") could possibly apply in two conversations where Gungho wasn't even addressing the same person!  admittedly, Khwazit seems to have solved it by making the line pronoun-less (iow, an implied subject):
https://kwhazit.ucoz.net/trans/ff6/34betray.html

however, he outright states that he was addressing the incoherency by avoiding a subject.  clever, but seems kind of like putting a thumb on the scale.

it's valid English, though strikes me as a rare approach in this game.

i would like to know what the subject was in the original Japanese.
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(08-10-2020, 04:46 AM)assassin Wrote:
Quote:Removed "Incoherent Gungho" The issue isn't a bug, it's bad translation. I don't think the problem should be fixed this way anymore. Fixing the broken script should suffice in fixing this the right way. My script-fix will address this.

you sure?  how does RPGOne's translation handle the dialogue?  preliminary script here:
http://www.skyrender.net/ff6script.txt

if the incoherency is still there, then what are the odds that both Woolsey and Sky Render made a bad translation, when the latter was going out of his way to not rely on the former?

it always seemed odd to me how *both* the with-Strago and sans-Strago conversations were messed up, and then one elegant change could remedy both by bringing instant clarity without rewriting a single word of text.

does the way that the GBA/etc.  remake team chose to approach the incoherency necessarily tell us the true source of the original flaw 13 years prior?

---

EDIT: one thing i was skeptical of is how a single line ("When you were younger you hunted Hidon [...]") could possibly apply in two conversations where Gungho wasn't even addressing the same person!  admittedly, Khwazit seems to have solved it by making the line pronoun-less (iow, an implied subject):
https://kwhazit.ucoz.net/trans/ff6/34betray.html

however, he outright states that he was addressing the incoherency by avoiding a subject.  clever, but seems kind of like putting a thumb on the scale.

it's valid English, though strikes me as a rare approach in this game.

i would like to know what the subject was in the original Japanese.

My apologies to Sky Render, because I know he's moved on and just wanted to do a good thing. But the thing is that RPGONE's translation is actually really bad. One reason is because it DID rely on the SNES translation. It outright copies the SNES translation a lot of the time. And it gets a lot wrong because of it. Ted Woolsey got a lot of things wrong, which considering the constraints he worked under at the time, I understand. When RPGONE deviates from the SNES script, it sometimes gets it right... and sometimes it gets things wrong that Woolsey got right. In general it's the GBA translation by Tom Slattery that gets everything right. It makes a few errors here and there, but by and large, if you want accuracy, choose GBA. But if you like Woolsey's style, then go with one of the rewrites of the SNES script. Such as... my "Translating the Name Edition", for instance. :3

The Legends of Localization FF6 streams have been eye-opening to me. They compare SNES, GBA, and original Japanese live at the same time. I definitely recommend them if you want to see all the differences between translations. Mato is an excellent and fluent translator of Japanese, and he translates the Japanese text on the spot.

But yes, that one line that is duplicated across both occurrences (with Strago and without) gave me pause. Japanese is built so differently than English, and its pronoun use (or lack of sometimes) can be hard to translate. But the conversation with Gungho will never be truly clear without rewriting the text. Just that "monumental bag of hot air" line alone is nonsense no matter how much things are reordered. Because it's supposed to be Gungho speaking that line.
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I concur with CV on the Gungho dialog.

(08-10-2020, 04:46 AM)assassin Wrote: i would like to know what the subject was in the original Japanese.

I think KWhazit is speaking to FF6j directly here, indicating that the subject is similarly ambiguous in the original (underlined):
Quote:One with painfully awkward translation, though part of it is understandable given that one of the lines is used as third-person in one case and second-person in the other. I've compensated by avoiding a subject, which works well enough in a conversation.
I'm not sure how (or if) GBA deals with it, although I do know the line is still given in the second person. If it wasn't considered a bug in Japanese, then it is probably not fixed in GBA.


That said, I think KWhazit's particular wording is more than a little awkward:
Quote:Strove to hunt the legendary monster Hidden when younger, but gave up partway through...

Lina Darkstar omitted the subject, too, and sacrificed some fidelity to get a more natural-sounding result:
Quote:Strove so hard to hunt that legendary monster, but quit along the way....
(Note: There is no indication that Lina Darkstar was aware of the problem with this line in English, so the lack of subject here further supports KWhazit's assessment of the original line.)

An early draft of my project has this:
Quote:Strove as a youth to hunt the legendary monster Hidon, only to give up and quit before finding it...
(Incorporates a touch of GBA near the end. As usual, feel free to use/modify if it suits your fancy.)
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Hi CV,

Rythian reported an issue in my project, which I narrowed down to LeetSketcher's "Map Mishap" bugfix v1.8 and below.

See the description here:
https://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/thread...l#pid39287
(09-12-2020, 07:38 PM)Rythian Wrote: I just climbed the Fanatic's Tower with Molulu's Charm and noticed that I didn't have to open the secret door for the Air Anchor - it was already open. In fact, once I looted the chest and stepped to the room above and flicked the switch, the entire room below disappeared and wouldn't reopen again. It's like it was all reversed, starting open and the secret switch closed it.

I have notified LeetSketcher, and will be investigating further as well. Hopefully we can figure out a solution before your next release.

Update:

This seems to fix the problem:

Code:
Original FF3us (& Map Mishap v1.8):
CC/5175: C0        ; If
          DC 02    ; ($1E80($2DC) [$1EDB, bit 4] is clear),
          B3 5E 00 ; branch to $CA5EB3 (simply returns)

Modified (Fixes Map Mishap v1.8):
CC/5175: C0        ; If
          DC 82    ; ($1E80($2DC) [$1EDB, bit 4] is set),
          B3 5E 00 ; branch to $CA5EB3 (simply returns)

From what I can tell, this was just a minor oversight in the original Map Mishap. I think the patch reverses the arrangement of the door/doorless tile data, but neglects to invert the switch effect.
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