FF6 Tenkarider's contest (accessible even to casuals)

Darn, found this one too late to start playing it now... Maybe next time!

If it encourages you, I haven't even started the route or fighting planning, all I've done is figure out exactly what I think(totally guess) the clock combination is.

Actually no one still praticed for real this task: Lockirby2 is in the same situation of Cecil188...
Basically even you (Kastguy) are at square one like them... but if your problem is personal lack of time, then it's another story...

Due to some doubt, it's better to do some clarification:
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Example -> random guy speaks: "<statement A> (AND/OR/...) <statement B>" the liar is not lying about statements(that doesn't mean they're true for sure, it means that they are not altered from his liar nature) it means that the logic operation's result, between 2 statements, is a lie(it returns false as value)
So: (example) <statement A> (XOR) <statement B> = FALSE.
XOR is false when both the statements are true or false... which one of the 2? who knows... some logic scheme is required.
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Yeah, both of our challenges are designed so that time is not much of a factor overall. A quick run is better than no run at all. If you just want to throw together something quick that beats the task, you can probably complete Tenka's challenge in two or three hours and mine/Jackimus' in about half an hour to an hour.

Oh, lucky day: i had the time of submitting the results!

Before showing the videos, i'm gonna explain how to solve the logic puzzle and discover the secret code... here's the description of all relevant sentences:
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The merchant - "Yeah, i know... it's crazy to deal with statements logic, but those liars are used to be hackers. when they use logic operators, the result of expression is ALWAYS false. except that, what they say is not a lie, you follow me?"

What it means - when you talk to a liar and he use a logic operator, like (AND), most of the times there will be 2 statements, one at the left and one at the right of the operator... when that happens they won't directly lie on the sentence: the result of all logic operations will ALWAYS be false instead.
Since you already know that it's false the value, then you'll have to do reverse engineering on the 2 statements, like in this way:
You have (XOR) as operator -> XOR is false in 2 cases:
- Both the statements are true;
- Both the statements are false.
then you have to test if other infos match with the first case or the second one of the XOR sentence, and so on...
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Liars:
- "You have to calculate logic operators between " ", the ones between < > are just a part of the text"

meaning -> no logic operators? then it's just a lie to reverse: logic operators with
" " are just part of the text, the ones with <> have to be calculated;

- Dadaluma whistles! "not" logic operator is counted like the others, so the
statements with "not" aren't lies

meaning -> no operators, so just to reverse -> NOT operator is different from the others, so the statements with NOT are lies that will be reversed both from the NOT and both from the fact is a standard lie;

- "0:50 statements are redundant"

meaning -> it's possible to find redundant infos, as you collect all sentences and match the clues, but since this is a lie, then that won't happen for 0:50 statements... in other words if you'll find two 0:50 statements, then one will talk about seconds and the other about minutes;

Hours related clues:
- "It's a 2 digits number hour."

meaning -> just a lie: hours won't be 10:00 and 12:00 for sure;

- "It isn't 2:00_ <NAND> i'm talking about hour"

meaning -> NAND is false when both the statements are true, so that's an hour clue and it's not 2:00;

- "It's 4:00_ <OR> i'm talking about minutes"

meaning -> or is false when both the statements are false, so they're not minutes(quite obvious, 4:00 could be only an hour) and it's not 4:00;

- "About "binary" guy_ hour is based on the number of 1 of the actual number"

meaning -> there's a guy that express the number he's talking about in binary digits, using 8 digits, since it's a lie, it won't be the actual number the one to consider(the actual number is affected from NOT operator, so you're gonna consider it unmodified... 11110101 to be precise), then you'll have to count all "1" digits, which will be 6, like the hour of this statement... anyway it's a lie, so it's not 6:00

-> only 8:00 is still valid among hours, and that the correct one.
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Minutes related clues:

- "It's 0:20_ <XOR> i'm talking about seconds"

meaning -> XOR is false when both the statements are true or false, so it might mean one of those 2 possibilities:
- seconds are 0:20;
- minutes are not 0:20.
not enough clues at the moment, let's skip if for the moment...

- <NOT> minutes aren't 0:30

meaning -> NOT isn't like the others operators, so the sentence is a lie that will be reversed once more from the NOT -> in other words it means that minutes aren't 0:30 (PS. i believe Cecil188 stumbled here... tricked from Dadaluma?)

- "It isn't 0:50_ <NOR> i'm talking about minutes"

meaning -> NOR is false in all cases, except when both the sentences are false... to we might have 3 possibilities here.
Not enough clues... even this one will have to be skipped, for now.

- Minutes? <NOT> 11110101

meaning -> it's a lie, besides the NOT will reverse the binary number:
11110101 -> 00001010 -- binary number 1010 is 10 in decimal, so minutes are not 0:10

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Seconds related clues:

- "Seconds are 0:10 <OR> Seconds are 0:50"

meaning -> OR is false when both the statements are false, so... seconds are not 0:10 or 0:50, besides this is for sure a 0:50 statements, NOR cannot have the first statement true and the second one false, or we'll have a 0:50 redundant statement

- Seconds? It's 0:40

meaning -> easy... it's a lie, so it's not 0:40

- It's 0:20_ <AND> i'm talking about seconds

meaning -> AND is false in 3 cases:
- both statements are false;
- one is true and the other is false;
- like the one above, but the opposite.
This one is tricky, so i'll explain the others before;

- "one of "and" guy statements is true, the other is false_ <NOT XOR> both "xor" guy statements are true"

meaning -> Even if there's a NOT, the operation is NOT XOR, so it's like the other operators... and it's false only when one statement is true and the other is false... or the opposite.
there's only one guy who uses AND, the same for XOR...
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Ok, now we have need of doing some attempt in guessing which is the right choice for all the sentences with more that one possibility... let's collect what's left to discover:
Still valid numbers:
- Minutes -> 0:20, 0:40, 0:50;
- Seconds -> 0:20, 0:30
XOR:
- Both true -> seconds are 0:20
- Both false -> minutes are not 0:20
NOR:
- first false, second true -> minutes are 0:50
- both true -> minutes are not 0:50
AND:
- both false -> minutes are not 0:20
- first true, second false -> minutes are 0:20
- first false, second true -> seconds are not 0:20
NOT XOR:
- first true, second false -> and guy statements are not both false
xor guy statements are both false;
- first false, second true -> and guy statements are both false
xor guy statements are both true.
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Let's start from XOR... say the statements are both true:
- seconds will be 0:20
in this case NOT XOR must have the first false and the second true:
-> that means AND statements are both false, which means minutes are not 0:20.

In the case XOR statements are both false:
- minutes are not 0:20 (Lockirby2 stumbled here: in all the cases it's always said that minutes are not 0:20, no matter what.)
in this case NOT XOR must have the first statement true and the second false:
-> that means AND statements can be one true and one false, or the opposite...
- if AND first statement is true and the other false, then minutes are 0:20, but that
cannot be, we already declared minutes are not 0:20, so we have to choose the other case
(PS. if you start from AND to guess the others, when you'll consider this option, there won't be any way to choose another route, behause NOT XOR statements will have to be both false, so AND statements will NEVER be the first true and the second false)
- then AND first statement will be false and the second true, which means seconds are not 0:20 -> so seconds are 0:30(because it's the only one still valid).
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Maybe i missed some detail... anyway, now few options are left:
1) seconds are 0:20, minutes can be 0:40 or 0:50;
2) seconds are not 0:20 -> seconds are 0:30, minutes are 0:40 or 0:50.

So... which is the right choice among minutes and seconds? NOR condition doesn't have many bounds, and the choice among seconds looks quite arbitrary...
The answer is... the most accurate one:
- If you decide 0:20 seconds is the correct one, then you'll leave an hole... no one talks about 0:30 seconds, you cannot demonstrate in both directions that seconds are correct;
- If you choose seconds are not 0:20, then all seconds options will be eliminated, and seconds will be 0:30 without any doubt, like we did with the hours.

Let's solve finally the NOR sentence, if you decide minutes are 0:50 you'll leave an hole for 0:40 minutes choice, if minutes aren't 0:50, then the only option will be 0:40.

The answer is... 8:40:30

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In my video i'll show the correct input and some feature of the task:



On a side note i tried some combination, like quitting from Zozo by story event... definitively not better than doing that on your own.


Now the players:

First position -> Lockirby2(wrong combination)




Second position -> Cecil188(wrong combination)






Btw i won't have the same luck for the next task release: it will take some time before i'll have some time to even start it

While the explination of the answer made me a little lite headed just reading it... I am curious to see the incorrect answers and the logic that obtained them, or the clue they missed at least.


Curiosity already killed the cat, so I've got nothing to worry about.


Either way, gratz to the completed entries.

At the moment it's just a theory, but i guess that it will be up to the players to tell what's went wrong in their logic scheme:

- i believe that Cecil188 was fooled from Dadaluma message, so he swapped
"<NOT> minutes aren't 0:30" only once and assumed minutes were 0:30.

- About Lockirby2 he probably explored more deeply the enigma than Cecil188, but got trapped inside the logic net maze of nastier sentences(the ones that required to be confirmed among them)

It was simpler to build up the whole enigma that explain it @_@ it took me really much the second part...

Well, I see now what I messed up, and it's not what you thought.

The minutes are labelled as 0:20 in game, and the seconds are labelled as 0:00:20. So this is the part that I was never able to work out:

- "It's 0:20_ <XOR> i'm talking about seconds"

meaning -> XOR is false when both the statements are true or false, so it might mean one of those 2 possibilities:
- seconds are 0:20;
- minutes are not 0:20.

I didn't know that the formatting of the time as 0:20 would allow it to count as either a minute or a second value (but not hour), so I wasn't able to get this far. That meant that this clue meant nothing at all to me, really...

Furthermore, I still didn't understand that you were referring to both halves of the "AND" and "XOR" statements. It led me down the train of thought that the clue from the "NOT XOR" statement was pretty much "The AND and XOR statements cannot both be false".

All in all, pretty much all I could do at that point was take a guess among the remaining values randomly.

Unfortunately, while I enjoy this style of logic puzzle, I feel this challenge was hindered pretty badly by the language barrier, which is a shame. This was something that needed to be clearly articulated to work correctly. In this case understanding the instructions properly was probably harder than following them! :O

EDIT: On a side note Tenka, are you able to access ID? I keep getting a "Resource Limit Reached" message.

You give me too much credit, Tenkarider. I basically cut out all of the obvious ones(hours are not 10, 12), and then just guessed. It was just a pretty good guess.

Was that the problem about position of numbers, among zeros and ":" ? actually i didn't follow any rule, except that it was quite obvious when it was an hour or not...
If you had problems with the one above then there's no surprise to see you skrewed the enigma... almost everywhere there was 0:XX time measures!
btw i never used as time value something like 0:00:YY, how could it be possible that i was always talking about minutes... besides keeping valid that rule, the whole logic puzzle was destined to collapse, since there was no way to making become unknown when i was talking about seconds or minutes.

Said that, i don't know what else you still don't understand about XOR and AND sentences... and where language barrier is involved here...

PS. not even me can access ID, maybe the site is down, at the moment?
-> now it's possible to enter in ID!
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AHAHAH!!! if that was a guess, then it's one of the most accurate guessing i've ever seen!!