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FFVI Worlds Collide

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I just completed a seed on stream and here are my thoughts. I was able to recruit all the Characters and did everything that I could. I did of course finish the game but I went back doing the stuff that I was missing. I do really like WC being a open world race experience from start to finish (The same way FF4 FE and FF5 Career Day is)

Couple of comments regarding my experience :

- The seed file doesn't have the seed number attach to it (Just an observation but I assume it is already in the plan of having it).

- I generated the seed with "Items-Equipable-Original" and it seems it failed to do so. I was able to equip weapons that were not supposed to be equipable from the original game. (Fixed Dice on Sabin and Edgar among other things). Possibly a bug with the generator.

- It would be a good quality of life thing to have a counter somewhere on the Esper screen that would say how many Espers you own (Instead of having to count them manually).

- Some items feels overpowered and overshadows the rest. During my playthrough I was able to get 3 Fixed Dice and 3 Offerings, so everyboss that I did I killed them with that weapon. I don't necessarily ask for nerfing them (In fact I rather keep the stats as the same as Vanilla), but maybe have an option when generating the seed to remove some overkill items from the pool.

I tried to go through everything, but I couldn't find all the Espers in the game. Wasn't able to tell if all of them are in the game and I just missed some of the stuff, or they are not.

Overall this is a very good randomizer so far and has potential! Looking forward to see its development.
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My friend is actually playing the game and he got softlocked in Albrook when speaking with General Leo on the boat. Here's a link to the clip when it happened (it's in french but language doesn't really matter): https://clips.twitch.tv/DeafRespectfulToothCeilingCat
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  • AtmaTek (01-12-2020)

#23
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The continued feedback has been very helpful. Thank you everyone! I just updated the code to 0.1.3 which fixes the Relm/Sabin Vargas/Ultros battle (thank you C-Dude) and the Albrook port soft lock with General Leo (thank you Issander).
I also changed the default shop options to shuffle inventory and original prices. Duplicates will still happen with the shuffle option. In the future I will work on a better price randomize option which makes the prices plus or minus some percent of the original prices.

(01-12-2020, 06:15 AM)beep Wrote: i was thinking that it is possible to fail a run if you have max characters/espers required for kefkas tower and miss one of them, like choosing wrong for lone wolf.
Yes, I had considered that however I do not currently have any good strategy for dealing with it in game. Perhaps I can add some kind of warning to the website.

(01-12-2020, 06:15 AM)beep Wrote: another missable is on the phantom train, the ghost gave me an esper. not sure if i would be able to go back in if i hadn't found it before beating the train.
I should have anticipated players not checking the ghost in the caboose. I will look into ensuring players get the reward from the end of the train if they do not check the current spot.

(01-12-2020, 08:12 AM)LockeZ Wrote: After beating the Imperial Camp near Doma, the western exit doesn't work.
In vanilla, Sabin and the party return to the entrance on magitek armor. There was no need for an exit on that side of the map and there are even some small graphical glitches that do not affect gameplay. I do intend to add an exit there for convenience. I also agree about the ghost's dialog and and rust-rid price. I do not remember about the barrels but you are probably right. There may be some conflict between switching from WOB/WOR

(01-12-2020, 12:39 PM)C-Dude Wrote: You could remove the event calls from the Vargas and Ultros (SketchTutorial) fight scripts.
Thank you. It seems disabling the enemy scripts in the battle formations was exactly what I needed. My original approach was much more complicated than necessary.

(01-12-2020, 12:39 PM)C-Dude Wrote: Ultros is a perfectly viable and challenging boss without Relm to finish the fight, and Vargas's HP can be adjusted down to make the Blitz tutorial unnecessary.
I cut Vargas's HP in half (before scaling) and left Ultros alone. I also kept the ability for Sabin and Relm to end these battles early as another way for players to strategize routing. I am also considering lowering Whelk's HP so the relatively straightforward fight does not drag on.

(01-12-2020, 12:39 PM)C-Dude Wrote: For the 'rare thing costs 2 GP' problem, you could assign a GP value based on what you think the thing should be worth.  Relics tend to be worth between 3k and 20k gold.  You could go up to 40k for rare weapons/armor.  Ethers could be worth 5x a Tincture and Dry Ethers 5x that; x5 again for Elixirs and Megalixers.  I know this isn't vanilla but I'm sure your players would understand you assigning a value you feel is appropriate for these items.
I agree. This may be a necessary option to better balance the random inventory. I like your ideas for the cost multipliers based on other items. Figuring out exact numbers for all these other items will be a challenge for me since it will essentially need to be an opinionated decision and I want to do my best to implement opinions based on community consensus rather than just my own.

(01-12-2020, 01:18 PM)Imperatus Wrote: I thought it would be interesting if you could have a scaling feature but include a "+X levels" scale on ROM generation.
I really like this idea. I will try to implement it when I get a chance. From what I have seen so far it seems some of the more veteran players are finding the scaling far too easy whereas people who may not have played in a while are finding it more balanced. An option to multiply the enemy levels would probably greatly help to balance it better for individuals based on their skill level.

(01-12-2020, 01:39 PM)Cecil188 Wrote: An alternate solution would be to perhaps make items sell for a quarter of their buying price instead of a half. That doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to me
I have not looked into it yet but I bet you are right. This may not be too hard to implement. Thank you for the idea.

(01-12-2020, 03:33 PM)HoxNorf Wrote: - The way things advance are clever, and you'd need the knowledge of how they advance, but there are things that I wouldn't know, but found by accident.
You are right. Perhaps I can add some hints to the beginner's hall which I have largely left untouched so far.

(01-12-2020, 03:33 PM)HoxNorf Wrote: - If there's one thing I do adore, it's the fact that during the escape from the floating continent, once you said wait on getting on the airship twice, you don't have to wait until the timer hits 5 seconds as the reward will show up after saying wait twice.
I am glad you found that. It seemed unnecessary to me to have people wait 5 minutes every run. Especially in a race type scenario.

(01-12-2020, 03:33 PM)HoxNorf Wrote: I also like how you can enter Cyan's dream with a full party.
This had some challenges. For example, I currently allow players to enter with only 1 party member which may make Wrexsoul impossible. Maybe it is possible by a very clever player and strategic use of Life 3? I have not tested this and hope new players do not attempt it and grow frustrated.
Also, as you mentioned there is a graphical glitch with 4 party members in magitek armor. I am not planning to invest much time in fixing this right now since it seems like a somewhat fundamental limitation of palettes and magitek armor. Other people around these forums likely know much more about the issue than I do. https://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/thread...age-4.html

(01-12-2020, 03:33 PM)HoxNorf Wrote: - But a few things I am a bit bummed out about is no sealed cave, which I guess means no banquet
I mentioned the reason for the banquet exclusion in a previous post. The sealed cave does not have a real boss fight at the end or an npc which could give the player the event's reward. The entire gate scene would likely need to be skipped and simply replaced with immediately acquiring a reward upon reaching the end of the cave. I was also slightly worried about players noticing the floating continent and the sealed cave existing simultaneously since I would want them both available to the player in any order.

(01-12-2020, 03:33 PM)HoxNorf Wrote: Another thing is more of a nitpick, but Kefka no longer does, in my opinion, the best line in Final Fantasy 6: "Wait! He says! Do I look like a waiter!?" Since this is for races, it's necessary to remove that, and even in normal play since Sabin's not with you most of the time, but I am bummed out about it.
Haha. I completely agree. Removing this was an internal debate (along with a lot of other Kefka and Ultros lines). However, there is also a technical reason for not including the fights. Kefka actually takes up a character slot in those battles and acts as a scripted enemy and when 4 characters are in the party the fight will not work. This is also the reason an AI controlled random character cannot take Cyan's place and participate in the final battles. I would have to entirely replace the Kefka fights altogether for people to have a few fights which end after a single attack. I am not sure if this is worth it or even something players would want to repeatedly experience.

(01-12-2020, 03:33 PM)HoxNorf Wrote: it would be great if there was a way to randomize the sprites, just like the Link to the Past randomizer, even though they might not look good in certain palettes. I know this is a minor detail that doesn't really matter, but personally, I feel that these aesthetic changes allow me to replay the randomizer more.
I completely agree and I think it does matter. This is definitely something I want to add in the future. I had previously tried to randomize sprites but the palette limitations made me decide to put it off until after releasing it for others to try. I previously tried using the sprite database but most of the sprites in it use their own palette. Very few reuse an existing palette or even create two characters with the same palette. Nonetheless, I do want to spend more time on this and hope I can find a solution.

(01-12-2020, 03:33 PM)HoxNorf Wrote: In conclusion, I think this will be great for races while Beyond Chaos is great for a unique and challenging experience.
Thank you for the thoughtful feedback. Beyond Chaos is a great randomizer and both Abyssonym and Subtraction have done an amazing job with it. They have been dedicated to it for years and have an incredible number of features available. When I started this project the main difference I was focused on was removing the linear story requirements so that runs could be significantly shortened. I wanted to make something that could be completed in a single afternoon even for a casual player. I hope people find both projects fun to play.

(01-12-2020, 04:56 PM)TheSabin Wrote: - The seed file doesn't have the seed number attach to it (Just an observation but I assume it is already in the plan of having it).
The seed should be the sixth line in the txt log file. Can you please verify it is missing?

(01-12-2020, 04:56 PM)TheSabin Wrote: - I generated the seed with "Items-Equipable-Original" and it seems it failed to do so. I was able to equip weapons that were not supposed to be equipable from the original game. (Fixed Dice on Sabin and Edgar among other things). Possibly a bug with the generator.
Thank you for letting me know. I will look into this.

(01-12-2020, 04:56 PM)TheSabin Wrote: - It would be a good quality of life thing to have a counter somewhere on the Esper screen that would say how many Espers you own (Instead of having to count them manually).
That is a good idea, thank you. It might require some time to implement.

(01-12-2020, 04:56 PM)TheSabin Wrote: - Some items feels overpowered and overshadows the rest. During my playthrough I was able to get 3 Fixed Dice and 3 Offerings
Do you happen to remember where you got them from? I recently changed the shop inventory default option to shuffle so if they were from shops that should be more balanced now.

(01-12-2020, 04:56 PM)TheSabin Wrote: I tried to go through everything, but I couldn't find all the Espers in the game. Wasn't able to tell if all of them are in the game and I just missed some of the stuff, or they are not.
All 14 characters and espers should be in every game and listed somewhere in the log file. I have scripts which test for this as well that I run somewhat frequently. However, because things are essentially random there is always the chance I have missed something.

(01-12-2020, 05:26 PM)Issander Wrote: My friend is actually playing the game and he got softlocked in Albrook when speaking with General Leo on the boat. Here's a link to the clip when it happened (it's in french but language doesn't really matter): https://clips.twitch.tv/DeafRespectfulToothCeilingCat
Thank you so much for letting me know. I have fixed this with version 0.1.3.
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One additional comment: I'd love to see additional characters added into the character pool, as well as the ability to have duplicates. So you get 14 character slots, but you could end up with 7 Lockes, 3 Celes, a Gau, and whomever else. Since Banon and Leo were already in the game, I was wondering how complicated adding them to the character pool would be? They already have their own abilities so I thought it was something that could be done. It was one of those goals for the Randomizer I had planned actually.

For the Seed comment above, I think what they meant was to add it to the actual generated filename. So instead of it being final_fantasy_3_wc, it would be final_fantasy_3_wc[seed#]. I actually wanted to suggest this as well; it's mostly just a minor QoL thing, but it would be nice!

Have you joined the FF6 Hacking Discord server yet? Or do you have your own for FF6WC?
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Just wanted to stop by and say that turnaround time with bug fixes, and consideration of community suggestions/ideas is quite impressive. I have no doubt that the randomizer will bloom into something equally impressive with your dedication to it.


The only thing harder than finding a needle in a haystack is finding a haystack in a needle. Laugh
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  • madsiur (01-13-2020)

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AtmaTek Wrote:I currently allow players to enter with only 1 party member which may make Wrexsoul impossible. Maybe it is possible by a very clever player and strategic use of Life 3? I have not tested this and hope new players do not attempt it and grow frustrated.
- You can beat WrexSoul by using X-Zone on the 2 other things, but yeah, not everyone's gonna know or have that.
- One more thing I found while using this X-Zone cheese is that even when the 2 things were X-Zone'd, WrexSoul appeared as well as another thing. I couldn't snapshot or record it, but I hope nothing like using zinger on its minions happen.

- Also, about the sprites, maybe randomizing palettes that are within the randomizer will balance out, just as long as the character still looks good in another palette, which is skin, outline, eyes looking good and not being a jumbled mess, just like how it is in Free Enterprise if a palette being randomized is chosen and how it is in Beyond Chaos, but I feel like now I'm giving suggestions that makes this randomizer like others instead of its own thing, unless it can be considered a good thing.

- Would you like me to post an example of a character that looks good in other palettes?

I didn't try this out, but I had a thought.
Since Bababreath from Phunbaba gets rid of 2 people, then transitions and another person is supposed to join in on the next fight, what would happen if you only had 1-2 members fighting Phunbaba, and the person you're trying to get turns out to be an item or an esper and not a character?
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#27
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BabaBreath fails if only one character is present, so that character will surely be able to at least attempt the last form of Phunbaba.


The only thing harder than finding a needle in a haystack is finding a haystack in a needle. Laugh
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MarthSR, a FF4FE veteran, posted keypoint improvements over twitter: https://pastebin.com/SnguhHwt
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Finally made it here! Laugh

Just wanted to say that I've enjoyed playing this rando, and that it has amazing potential! As shown above, I've posted a pastebin of my initial thoughts on what could be improved. Note that my insight is based on my experience as a speedrunner and rando racer, so it'll natually favor making the rando better for race settings. Not sure if that was the general direction you intended to take your rando towards, but it sure has the foundations of making FFVI rando races more accessible.

Again, amazing work there, Atma! Keep it up!
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  • AtmaTek (01-14-2020)

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Atmatek, your attention to feedback is impressive and I look forward to watching as this grows. I wanted to note that I ran into an odd bug, when using the NPC on the falcon to unequip all members, it didn't unequip relics from Umaro during my first seed of this. Thanks again for your hard work on this!
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