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FFVI Worlds Collide

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(01-14-2020, 11:08 AM)Cecil188 Wrote: A friend of mine found that they were blasting things with Stone from Brawler Rage(and later, Gogo and Strago could learn it by being in the same battle). Scaling with highest level party member may even make this easier on average, because just giving those three a couple levels over the rest allows them to take advantage of the 8x damage from being the same level rather easily. Not sure how to go about this other than just leaving it in, but perhaps it would be possible to have the scaling randomly pick one level above or one level below, reducing Stone to only having a 1/3 chance of being very powerful.
That sounds like a decent solution. I will look into varying levels +/- 1 but never going under 3. In the future, this could also be changed to +/- 2 if the ability still seems too powerful. Thank you again.

(01-14-2020, 11:32 AM)Imperatus Wrote: Out of curiosity, does anyone know how complicated it would be to change the upper bounds for costs on items? If the current cap is 65535, how hard would it be to change it to the next highest byte size (Oh man my programming degree is failing me now)? I think this would be useful and make it easier to added the rare equipment into the shop pool, as you could set a much higher base price for those items (Kind it like I had mentioned in a previous comment). I’m sure it could cause some other problems but it was mostly just a thought I had.
Madsiur has essentially described what would be required. I would definitely make this change if balancing issues required it. Another option is to decrease the amount of gp acquired in the game currently. For example, chest values are multipled by 100 so dividing all the gp values by 100 may be somewhat easy to achieve.

(01-15-2020, 02:05 AM)C-Dude Wrote: Character gating is okay, but you could also use the rare items for this.  FF6 has 20 Rare Items which are handled by event bits 1D0 to 1E3.  You could rename some of them and then require them to trigger events (by putting a branch at the start of your event triggers that returns [go to $CA5EB3] if the event bit for the rare item is unset).  Then, you could shuffle the "get rare item" events in with your character and esper scramble.

For instance, maybe you make one of the rare items a train ticket and require that to board the Phantom Train... or an Opera Balcony Pass could be required to trigger that event.  Heaven knows a randomizer doesn't need four fish and a manicure!  Although... maybe "Poison Fish" could trigger the "Cid Dies" event!
That is a very interesting idea. We have currently been discussing character gating quite a lot. I figured experienced players may intuitively understand where to go next. For example, people who have played the game before could likely guess to try out mt kolts after getting Sabin. One of the disadvantages we are facing with character gating is a large skew towards characters like terra, celes and sabin vs others such as mog, gogo, and umaro. Finding multiple (to prevent linear paths) intuitive gates for them is very challenging and opinionated.

Changing the names of rare items to something descriptive might solve the intuition issue. It also opens up other fun possibilities such as an option for making the name of the rare items random things from other final fantasy games (spoon, black materia, kupo nut, gysahl greens, ...) and the descriptions can list what they unlock. I would probably not implement it by shuffling the rare items in with the esper/character/item rewards already in the game because that would either require adding about 15 more reward spots or every seed would not have every character/esper. It would likely be implemented by having each current reward spot potentially also give a rare item in addition to its usual reward.

I really like that idea C-Dude. Thank you for suggesting it.

I would really appreciate more feedback on this from everyone else as well! Even just stating a preference between key item or character progression would help. Both systems may be possible eventually but I am very interested in finding out how to best focus my time.


(01-17-2020, 07:32 PM)NPCnextdoor Wrote: The Dried Meat could be removed from everywhere in the game except for one chest, making it a gating "rare" item as well.
I agree with Cecil. There are a number of unreachable chests in the original game as well as some additional ones in Worlds Collide (south figaro cave before celes, banquet, ...). There are also maps which are no longer available after a certain point (magitek factory, floating continent, imperial camp, collapsing house, cyan's dream, ...). There would need to either be a lot of exceptions or somewhat complex logic to make a random chest a requirement. This is also why betting the Striker in the coliseum does not have any esper/character reward. The Striker is not available in every seed. Ensuring that dried meat is in a random shop would be much more feasible.

I like the rest of the ideas in your list. Thank you for posting them.

(01-19-2020, 11:24 PM)Endarire Wrote: @AtmaTek: While I'm not yet sure about the feasibility, I would like the option to apply this randomizer to FFVI Brave New World's hack, or have a separate BNW version.
It would depend on how many collisions the two mods have and what/where those collisions are. I would have to spend a good amount of time investigating the feasibility myself. My assumption is that making the two compatible would require a large amount of work and is unlikely in the near future. If there is a strong demand for this I can spend more time on it after the current priorities are accomplished.

(01-19-2020, 11:24 PM)Endarire Wrote: Request: Add an option in the menu (perhaps by commandeering the Mono/Stereo bit) so players can toggle random encounters, like with FFIV Free Enterprise.
I would like this as well. I have not spent much time on menus yet. Someone else also mentioned adding an esper count to the esper page which I think is a good idea.

(01-19-2020, 11:24 PM)Endarire Wrote: Request: Add an option pre-game or in the options menu to change the names of all playable characters.  Preferably, this happens pre-game to aid speedrunners.
Do you mean randomly selecting names or allowing people to enter in names? An option to randomly pick names from a list for each character would be easy. Actually specifying names for each character might have some limitations. People can also use rename cards in game when time is not a factor.

(01-19-2020, 11:24 PM)Endarire Wrote: Q: By visiting certain Schrodinger's Chests in WoR first, does that upgrade their contents so I can visit their WoB versions and collect their less upgraded treasures?
In most cases this means the WOR and WOB have two separate maps for these areas which each contain different chests. Because you can freely travel between the two you can sometimes collect the same chest twice; once in the WOB and once in the WOR. The order you collect them does not matter.

(01-19-2020, 11:24 PM)Endarire Wrote: Bug: WoR Albrook cafe has Imperial Soldiers dancing as if it's WoB.
Thank you. I will fix this.

Thank you, everyone. As I mentioned, I would be grateful for more feedback on the planned progression system.
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#52
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@AtmaTek
I updated my previous post. I only noticed it was at the end of a page.

For names, I refer to player-specified names, like when the party first hears of a character.

I'd prefer a 'progression system' be optional. I wanted FFVI to be open ended from much earlier in the game when I played this game back in elementary school. The point of the mod is to have the open world goodness!

Brief commentary regarding a sorta-Very Hard run so far.

(The most notable part was giving all foes +10 levels and having their levels scale with the highest party member's level. We have x5 EXP and x20 AP because grinding is the least interesting part of the game.)

This has been slow going. Every new character effectively requires grinding to level 99 ASAP (and I prefer doing it outside the WoR Narshe classroom) with the right esper bonuses to avoid dying quickly. Some enemies have been weak, mostly bosses, but items, espers, and team stats have been major factors in getting us this far. SlamDancers and Tyrnosaurs have been the most difficult foes so far.

As someone who has played FFVI many times but who hasn't yet memorized every detail, I felt a bit overwhelmed initially as to where to go and what to do. Our 'team' started as Gau - my least favorite character due to his uncontrollability and possibly tied with Umaro for similar reasons - and Shadow joined in WoR Kohlingen. After that, it was hours of scouring towns and grinding at 20ish times normal speed to get the proper esper bonuses (Terrato, Odin, Raiden, and Zoneseek came early for us), and our team soon discovered that every new character started at a very low level - about 5 - and required similar treatment to be relevant in this world.

My reaction so far is mixed. I know I asked for difficult, but +10 levels over the party's highest level is asking for a slow game. I didn't realize how slow until I tried it.

Thankee, though, for this mod!
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#53
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(01-20-2020, 05:10 AM)AtmaTek Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 02:05 AM)C-Dude Wrote: Character gating is okay, but you could also use the rare items for this.  FF6 has 20 Rare Items which are handled by event bits 1D0 to 1E3.  You could rename some of them and then require them to trigger events (by putting a branch at the start of your event triggers that returns [go to $CA5EB3] if the event bit for the rare item is unset).  Then, you could shuffle the "get rare item" events in with your character and esper scramble.

For instance, maybe you make one of the rare items a train ticket and require that to board the Phantom Train... or an Opera Balcony Pass could be required to trigger that event.  Heaven knows a randomizer doesn't need four fish and a manicure!  Although... maybe "Poison Fish" could trigger the "Cid Dies" event!
That is a very interesting idea. We have currently been discussing character gating quite a lot. I figured experienced players may intuitively understand where to go next. For example, people who have played the game before could likely guess to try out mt kolts after getting Sabin. One of the disadvantages we are facing with character gating is a large skew towards characters like terra, celes and sabin vs others such as mog, gogo, and umaro. Finding multiple (to prevent linear paths) intuitive gates for them is very challenging and opinionated.

Changing the names of rare items to something descriptive might solve the intuition issue. It also opens up other fun possibilities such as an option for making the name of the rare items random things from other final fantasy games (spoon, black materia, kupo nut, gysahl greens, ...) and the descriptions can list what they unlock. I would probably not implement it by shuffling the rare items in with the esper/character/item rewards already in the game because that would either require adding about 15 more reward spots or every seed would not have every character/esper. It would likely be implemented by having each current reward spot potentially also give a rare item in addition to its usual reward.

I really like that idea C-Dude. Thank you for suggesting it.

I would really appreciate more feedback on this from everyone else as well! Even just stating a preference between key item or character progression would help. Both systems may be possible eventually but I am very interested in finding out how to best focus my time.

I just discovered Final Fantasy VI: Worlds Collide today... along with Final Fantasy V: Career Day, but oh man this made my day! I love Final Fantasy IV: Free Enterprise, now Final Fantasy VI is getting the same treatment. Best of luck AtmaTek to you and your team!

Now, for the naming of the rare items. They should be kept to the spirit of Final Fantasy VI and not named after items found in other Final Fantasies. NPCnextdoor and C-Dude got it right with the naming of these items for this randomizer.
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(01-20-2020, 05:10 AM)AtmaTek Wrote: That is a very interesting idea. We have currently been discussing character gating quite a lot. I figured experienced players may intuitively understand where to go next. For example, people who have played the game before could likely guess to try out mt kolts after getting Sabin. One of the disadvantages we are facing with character gating is a large skew towards characters like terra, celes and sabin vs others such as mog, gogo, and umaro. Finding multiple (to prevent linear paths) intuitive gates for them is very challenging and opinionated.

Changing the names of rare items to something descriptive might solve the intuition issue. It also opens up other fun possibilities such as an option for making the name of the rare items random things from other final fantasy games (spoon, black materia, kupo nut, gysahl greens, ...) and the descriptions can list what they unlock. I would probably not implement it by shuffling the rare items in with the esper/character/item rewards already in the game because that would either require adding about 15 more reward spots or every seed would not have every character/esper. It would likely be implemented by having each current reward spot potentially also give a rare item in addition to its usual reward.

I really like that idea C-Dude. Thank you for suggesting it.

I would really appreciate more feedback on this from everyone else as well! Even just stating a preference between key item or character progression would help. Both systems may be possible eventually but I am very interested in finding out how to best focus my time.
I think attaching the rare items to existing shuffled events is a splendid idea.  In fact, fixing 'key item' triggers to certain events would be even better, it would facilitate pathing through the randomizer, for both you and the runners.

For instance, if players know the Vargas fight will get them a key item (regardless of whether they get character, esper, or gear as well), then players will hurry there when they're confident they can best Vargas (even faster if they have Sabin to skip the fight).  This is how Free Enterprise handles gating; players go into Baron/MtOrdeals/Fabul/etc because they know they'll get a key item at the end of it.

A few additional thoughts for key items, in case you need more...
+ EnginePart (required to let WoR Figaro Castle submerge, granting access to Ancient Castle)
+ FireRods (required to start Thamasa Blaze event)
+ RustRid (not new, but you can move it off the seller into the rare item pool to gate Mt Zozo)
+ ClockKey (not new, but might be good to enable the time machine function of the Blackjack to go to the World of Ruin, if added to the rare pool)
+ PaintThinner (allows Haunted Owzer's Mansion to trigger)

EDIT: Actually, the RustRid Salesman in Zozo would be a good place to add a Rare Item unlock. Players would have to manage their money to buy it... his price might even be randomizable.
(I don't know if you've done something there already, I haven't had a chance to play through your randomizer yet. Scrambling to finish a hack)
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@AtmaTek
FFIV Free Enterprise serves as a spiffy example in general of how to turn a Final Fantasy game into an open world RPG by starting with an airship.

Should Cyan's Dream be accessible with no Cyan in the party? It was for me.

Request: Allow Banon and Leo to be recruitable and playable as long-term characters. Let us change their gear and espers. (For the sake of ease if it isn't already in-game, assume Leo can wear the same stuff as Celes and assume Banon can wear Strago's gear.) Perhaps allow players to select a maximum of 14 playable characters when seeding a game, or use Banon/Leo instead of Umaro/Gogo.
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(01-22-2020, 05:49 PM)Endarire Wrote: Request: Allow Banon and Leo to be recruitable and playable as long-term characters.  Let us change their gear and espers.  (For the sake of ease if it isn't already in-game, assume Leo can wear the same stuff as Celes and assume Banon can wear Strago's gear.)  Perhaps allow players to select a maximum of 14 playable characters when seeding a game, or use Banon/Leo instead of Umaro/Gogo.

This is a tall order, perhaps too tall.  The Guest slots that temporarily store Banon and Leo are not as usable as they seem; this community spent years trying to get the first of them to behave (do a search for Iris Havengard on the main page).  PowerPanda picked up the project and is currently the closest to sussing it, but it's not an easy road.
Setting up Banon and Leo in Gogo's and Umaro's actor slots is a more reasonable approach; there's already code available to give Umaro a command table and removing his tackle/blizzard/toss attacks is relatively easy.

GrayShadows also set up a RAM repointing to allow Gogo a learnable spellset, so the legwork is basically done in that regard.
There isn't enough contiguous ram to allow Actor $0D's slot to learn magic though, sorry.  MMMMMMagic can allow a shared learnset, but without that the best you can hope for is Gogo-esque magic (spell list comprised of all other actors' lists in the party).

Although... Leo refused magicite and magic injection, so it's reasonable that he wouldn't take an esper and that he'd only have 'party' magic.
If Atmatek expresses interest in the idea, I can list the addresses that need tweaking and the patches that would need to be applied.
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I've seen videos of Leo casting spells. Banon already has a 'casting' animation for his Health ability. (The game never calls him a Priest, but he's effectively one.)

What about ROM expansion to allow for more coded goodness?

Request: Add a "Moogle Brigade" mode where all playable characters are moogles with the appropriate abilities! (Moogle Gogo, Moogle Umaro, Mog, etc.) Perhaps use the default Moogle names from Terra's rescue scenario, plus some to account for Locke/Gogo/Umaro. These moogles (or their sprites) are instead of the normal characters/sprites.
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Depending on the context of the video, I suspect what they had done was just replacing Locke(or someone) with Leo visually, and perhaps edit the command list to have Shock to match. Adding a fully functional 15th character is much harder, and expanding the ROM isn't the silver bullet to make a 15th character more easily, as far as I know.


The only thing harder than finding a needle in a haystack is finding a haystack in a needle. Laugh
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Finally, a randomizer for this game actually built for racing. You are God.
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(01-20-2020, 06:14 AM)Endarire Wrote: For names, I refer to player-specified names, like when the party first hears of a character.
Ok. Thank you for clarifying. This can probably be added. The hard part is making a nice interface for naming 14 characters.

(01-20-2020, 06:14 AM)Endarire Wrote: I'd prefer a 'progression system' be optional.
It would definitely be a second option. The current system is not going away.

(01-20-2020, 06:14 AM)Endarire Wrote: This has been slow going.  Every new character effectively requires grinding to level 99 ASAP
Thanks for trying out the Very Hard mode and giving feedback. There has been some discussion about possibly having an option to have characters join at the average level. However, that will not always solve this problem. For example, if you get a number of characters early on and then continue playing without using them much they may easily fall behind. Another possibility is having everyone gain experience after a battle, not just the characters in your current party. The downside to that approach is the characters not in your party will likely not have espers equipped and would not gain bonuses. But it still may be worth the time save for people.

Overall, both of these options would require a good amount of work but I am doing my best to get to them.

(01-20-2020, 06:14 AM)Endarire Wrote: +10 levels over the party's highest level is asking for a slow game.
Yes. It absolutely is. Maybe +10 is too high. I made the extra enemy levels option very flexible. You can even set it to 99 even though it might not be possible to complete. I did not want to restrict people artificially because of my own bias of what is easy/hard/impossible. The presets are intended to be more of a guide and I encourage people to try out different options if they don't like something about the presets.

(01-20-2020, 06:14 AM)Endarire Wrote: Thankee, though, for this mod!
Thank you for trying it out. I am glad you are enjoying it.

(01-21-2020, 08:11 PM)Fenrir Wrote: Now, for the naming of the rare items. They should be kept to the spirit of Final Fantasy VI and not named after items found in other Final Fantasies. NPCnextdoor and C-Dude got it right with the naming of these items for this randomizer.
Thank you for posting. I think I agree with you. It will take some creativity though because there may need to be quite a number of rare items created.

(01-21-2020, 09:36 PM)C-Dude Wrote: I think attaching the rare items to existing shuffled events is a splendid idea.  In fact, fixing 'key item' triggers to certain events would be even better, it would facilitate pathing through the randomizer, for both you and the runners.
Thank you for the suggestion. I have to give this more thought. I wonder what the best way would be to decide where to have fixed rewards.

Right now, I believe that every key item will need to unlock more than one place. Otherwise, if they all unlock only a single event then every player with that seed would end up following the same linear path. That seems especially bad for side-by-side races.

My current plan is to have a pool of maybe 50 or so rare items, with about 15-20 of those randomly distributed in a single game. Each rare item will unlock 2-3 places so that after every event the player will always have multiple choices on where to go next. The 15-20 rare items in the game will be guaranteed to unlock every event.

(01-22-2020, 05:49 PM)Endarire Wrote: Should Cyan's Dream be accessible with no Cyan in the party?  It was for me.
Yes, that is intentional. The party size requirement was also removed. Nearly every location/event is accessible from the very beginning.

(01-22-2020, 05:49 PM)Endarire Wrote: Request: Allow Banon and Leo to be recruitable and playable as long-term characters.  Let us change their gear and espers.  (For the sake of ease if it isn't already in-game, assume Leo can wear the same stuff as Celes and assume Banon can wear Strago's gear.)  Perhaps allow players to select a maximum of 14 playable characters when seeding a game, or use Banon/Leo instead of Umaro/Gogo.
As others have mentioned, adding additional characters is incredibly challenging and better people than me are working on it. Maybe sometime in the future I can accept C-Dude's offer and try to work within the limitations. An option to replace a non-gogo and non-umaro character with Leo/Banon might be another alternative.

(01-23-2020, 09:31 PM)Endarire Wrote: Request: Add a "Moogle Brigade" mode where all playable characters are moogles with the appropriate abilities!  (Moogle Gogo, Moogle Umaro, Mog, etc.)  Perhaps use the default Moogle names from Terra's rescue scenario, plus some to account for Locke/Gogo/Umaro.  These moogles (or their sprites) are instead of the normal characters/sprites.
Haha, you are definitely the first to request this. It might be a fun option in the future. For now, moogle suits will have to do.
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[-] The following 2 users say Thank You to AtmaTek for this post:
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