Poll: Would you get involved in a wiki?
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Yes 77.78% 7 77.78%
maybe 22.22% 2 22.22%
No 0% 0 0%
Total 9 vote(s) 100%
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Pertinence of a ff6hacking.com Wiki

#1
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I just want to weight the potential reception and involvement among the community if we would host a wiki here. There's already the Data Crytal Page that does a good job with the SNES version and there's also a Slick Forum wiki buit it lacks FF6 info for now.

What I consider could fit in the wiki without doubling the info already on data crystal are details about patches, hacks, utilities, documents and other technical info not present on data crystal. There is also the possibility of putting tutorials there or even use it as a sprite database and start a FFVI Advance section. If you got other possible content ideas, please state them.

The pros of a wiki is that anyone can update it and do corrections. It's also something to watch because we need to avoid as examples false info, bad sprites or misleading tutorials. Another advantage is that it ease greatly the maintenance of different forum section. If everything relevant is centralized in a wiki, no need to have a web coder that need to weekly update and do the maintenance on the utility page, link section, or technical document page. Everyone can be this guy and it makes the web coder a less essential person.

One thing though is that it would require work for more than one person. I won't install a wiki if I'm the only one updating it. Other admins and the community in general need to chip in. I just want to weight the option now and measure potential involvement.

Discuss!
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#2
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The pros of a wiki, generally tend to be its biggest cons as well. Such as, anyone can edit it. Sure, if enough are working toward keeping it all correct and good, then it works. On the other hand, we are all not without enemies, and we've all met people that promote stupidity to prove themselves great.

Just for instance, lets say I wamted to be an ass, went in and added a random value between 99-269 to every offset in the wiki. Might be months before anyone would actually notice the damage, and after some idea of just how much damage had been done, pretty much every offset or posted code would have to be considered incorrect until confirmed, or all scrapped.

Sure, I'm talking worst case, really dedicated, user or former user who got upset. Not something that's going to happen but yes it could. Would almost need dedicated personel to police the wiki rather than the occasional volunteer. But really I'm just throwing this concept out there for the sake of argument.

My real question is what would be left for the forum at all if that much of the load is passed on to wiki format? Sure it wouldn't/shouldn't turn the entire heart of the forum into another wiki (I don't think it would), but really what would remain in forum format after doing that?

I see the reason behind such an idea, and it WOULD have several advantages. I just get the feeling it wouldn't work out for the best, or simply never get past the startup point. Don't really have a legit reason for that feeling so take it as you will (or possibly ignore altogether).

That being said, if possible I would attempt to help with such an endevor eventually. Right now, and most likely for the next while I'm to busy to even get proper sleep, (hence the lacking of pointless shoutbox spam I haven't been posting lately) but eventually I would try to contribute.


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#3
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(02-16-2016, 05:06 PM)Catone Wrote: The pros of a wiki, generally tend to be its biggest cons as well. Such as, anyone can edit it. Sure, if enough are working toward keeping it all correct and good, then it works. On the other hand, we are all not without enemies, and we've all met people that promote stupidity to prove themselves great.

We can require forum credentials or even authorize someone to be able to edit the wiki. We can also set admins to approve the added content and edits. It's faster to review 2 entries from a trusted user than writing yourself the two entries or worst, being the only person that can write entries because others lack the knowledge or are unauthorized to make one (forum permission).

(02-16-2016, 05:06 PM)Catone Wrote: My real question is what would be left for the forum at all if that much of the load is passed on to wiki format?  Sure it wouldn't/shouldn't turn the entire heart of the forum into another wiki (I don't think it would), but really what would remain in forum format after doing that?

Most wiki look awful. However it can be integrated to the forum and look nice. Example: http://wiki.metroidconstruction.com/doku.php

There are multiple wiki engines, I'm sure I can find one that permit integration and content styling. What will be left? Everything that we don't put in the wiki. The forum will remain. I wouldn't mind seeing some pages and sticky threads no longer being commented disappear. Information is scattered all over the place and I think a centralization would help. However there will always be people that will not look at anything regardless o how well it is integrated and post a thread asking a link to an editor, wiki or not.

(02-16-2016, 05:06 PM)Catone Wrote: I see the reason behind such an idea, and it WOULD have several advantages. I just get the feeling it wouldn't work out for the best, or simply never get past the startup point. Don't really have a legit reason for that feeling so take it as you will (or possibly ignore altogether).

You might be right. For now, I'm just trying to see if removing the fact that I'm the only one who can update most pages and edit stuff would bring more involvement. If that thread remains a discussion between me and you, it's a sign that people are not interested. In the end however I want to be less required for the forum (coding wise) and lower my potential workload.

Thanks for the input!
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#4
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I'd be willing to chip in with regards to the wiki. It would be a great place for new users with a "Where do I start" mentality, as well as a way to quickly access resources if need be. I think it would be helpful to clean up a mess of scattered threads into what would hopefully be a clean and easily updated wiki format.

@Catone The wiki is great for general information, but the forum format is still better when a user needs to interact with somebody. Requesting help with something not in your wheelhouse (for example if I needed a sprite for something), some degree of socializing, sharing created works and dealing with "Why is my hack doing X when I'm not expecting it" scenarios (where the wiki may contain the info to solve the problem, but a reader probably would not know what to look for, because if they knew that then they would have already solved the problem) are more suited for the forum format. Most of what is already in the forum would remain, but we'd hopefully be able to create an easier solution for basic questions.


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#5
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(02-16-2016, 06:12 PM)Lockirby2 Wrote: I'd be willing to chip in with regards to the wiki.  It would be a great place for new users with a "Where do I start" mentality, as well as a way to quickly access resources if need be.  I think it would be helpful to clean up a mess of scattered threads into what would hopefully be a clean and easily updated wiki format.

Thanks for the offer. I think it would be a better place also to link specific documents that always come back in newbie threads as well as a place to have a newbie FAQ and dictionary. Don't forget we have (rarely but still) people asking how to patch a ROM or what is the event dump.

I'm thinking also about threads like "All about event hacking" that would be more presentable in a wiki format.

I've look a bit into the options and one that seems good for our needs is dokuwiki. It's file based rather than database based and it seems lower maintenance than others. The goal would be to lower the maintenance on the forum or rather spread it more among the users, not having a heavy maintenance wiki that 1 or 2 people can manage. There's a choosing wizard here. I'll have to run it again because there was about 14 wiki engines for the options I've chosen but dokuwiki seems to be one of the most complete among them.
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#6
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Personally, the more I think about it, things such as "All things event hacking" might better be left as an unchanging forum. That being said, some of the links on the side bar wouldn't hurt at all to be a wiki. Pages such as tools and documents that really do need to be updated fairly often, and would also be easy enough to check to make sure the links haven't been redirected to a virus or some such.

Pages such as "All Things event..." while possibly better presented in wiki format, don't really need to be modified or updated (possibly added to however) and it would be much more difficult to correct any sort of "attack" on that type of information. Sure, limiting the users that have free change power and confirming changes would help, but I for one wouldn't really enjoy going throughthat entire document confirming everything. Again, while maybe more presentable, not really the sprt of data that requires high maintenance or constant updating.

Was also meaning to ask, are you planning to work the wiki part into the normal website? Or are we talking about having the current forum here, then the wiki seperate? Or just changing some links off the main page and directing them to a wiki formated page as needed? My point being, I don't think it would be detrimental to split the site into forum & wiki data format. I know I'm not the only one out there that's never touched the forum side of some sites because everything I needed was on the other half. Not to mention the idea that some would be less inclinded to participate in either half if they have to check both halves to know if anything has changed.

So yeah, I can see it doing some good and lowering maintenance requirements if some things were moved to a wiki format, but converting as much as possible to wiki might really hurt it as a whole in the long run, possibly even more so than if you just quit doing maintenance. Just my thoughts on the matter, don't take it all as hard fact, keeping it in mind might be a good thing though.


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#7
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(02-17-2016, 08:39 AM)Catone Wrote: Pages such as "All Things event..." while possibly better presented in wiki format, don't really need to be modified or updated (possibly added to however) and it would be much more difficult to correct any sort of "attack" on that type of information. Sure, limiting the users that have free change power and confirming changes would help, but I for one wouldn't really enjoy going throughthat entire document confirming everything. Again, while maybe more presentable, not really the sprt of data that requires high maintenance or constant updating.

You're starting with the state of mind that some people will destroy data and that it can't be avoided. I think obvious sabotage attempts can easily be avoided in 100% of the cases. However, one wrong value on 30 in an update can be difficult to find but it's the same thing right now in post and I'm sure there are examples in threads. I'm not saying those threads require high maintenance but right now if someone want to edit another person's post, he has to add another post at the end of the thread. And yes they would be more presentable in a wiki format.

(02-17-2016, 08:39 AM)Catone Wrote: are we talking about having the current forum here, then the wiki seperate? Or just changing some links off the main page and directing them to a wiki formated page as needed? My point being, I don't think it would be detrimental to split the site into forum & wiki data format. I know I'm not the only one out there that's never touched the forum side of some sites because everything I needed was on the other half.

There would be a transitional period where main infos would be forum and wiki and how long this would be is up to you guys. I could probably have links on the navigation menu redirecting to some wiki pages. In any case right now if I update something in links or utilities page, I have to make an update post about it otherwise you wouldn't know it. Who checks the utility page daily right now? Updates are showing in a wiki. I could even have a menu on bottom of portal showing the most recent wiki changes if clicking on the wiki page is too much for some people.

(02-17-2016, 08:39 AM)Catone Wrote: Not to mention the idea that some would be less inclinded to participate in either half if they have to check both halves to know if anything has changed.

I think this is the perfect excuse for those that wouldn't participate either way. It's as bad as stating you can't do a task because you don't know something but never go forward to someone to learn the thing.
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#8
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Personally, I think "All Things Event Hacking" is a little bit messy as a thread. I think it would be a lot cleaner in wiki format. I see your point though.


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#9
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I will most likely go on with this since the result of the poll is positive. I will make a test install of dokuwiki after the mid-semester exams (after February 28th). dokuwiki is file-based, meaning it's easy to backup and easier to maintain from an administrator point of view, and it has numerous available plugins and themes. It also has an optional approval system and it seems to be safe with the last version being released in December 2015. I'm not sure if I can integrate the forum credentials to it without doing it manually but this is a rather small detail.

This might end in a good or failed experiment but I'm hoping toward the first ending. We need to try it to verify the outcome.

If you are interested in the wiki engine details:

Features
User Manual
Syntax
Available Plugins


Some modding / hacking wiki using dokuwiki found quickly on google:

Metroid Construction
Torch Modders
Codebase 64
PvSnesLib
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