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Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer)

#91
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This is a crazy question. But is it possible to randomize other hacks like Brave new world or RotDS? I'm already guessing that anything with different IDs or new events would mess things up, but just the idea of being able to randomize other hacks sounds really fun.
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#92
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Unfortunately, the changes in BNW and RotDS are so extensive that they would need dedicated randomizers. Even if there was a much more limited randomizer than mine or Dessy's, it probably wouldn't be compatible. But it's definitely possible to write specialized randomizers for existing mods, and wouldn't be much more difficult than writing one for vanilla.




https://github.com/abyssonym/beyondchaos
Beyond Chaos is a full-game randomizer for FF6.
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#93
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Something weird happened while my bro was playing the ancient cave: he has a umaro-like char that has Jump by default, he equiped a sword with tempest power and found a dragon horn... when he multi-jumps, if wind slash animation appears, while he's still above the sky, then, even if he's already landed, he'll be there, but he'll be invisible(missing sprite)... did that happen in vanilla too?


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#94
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Yeah, that's in vanilla, it's just a very rare setup. You can only do it by giving Cyan a Tempest, DragoonBoots, and Dragon Horn. Unlike Pearl Lance, the Tempest has special code for casting Wind Slash. Tempest can cast Wind Slash on multiple hits, but for Pearl Lance, I think it only casts Pearl on the last hit. But I might be wrong.




https://github.com/abyssonym/beyondchaos
Beyond Chaos is a full-game randomizer for FF6.
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#95
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I've nearly finished a playthrough of speedcave and I have to say, I'm enjoying myself a lot! It's easy to get lost or miss something and get stuck so I started making paper maps! Having to make your own maps is totally oldschool and awesome. There's absolutely no way I could have finished this in one sitting though. I admit I spend a lot of time getting lost and even more time checking exp levels and switching espers around to optimize both spell learning and stat building (god I hate this system).

Also, even though I've been playing on vanilla settings it's noticeably harder due to difficult monsters popping up fairly quickly and not having access to all your usual resources, but I got Osmose and Cure early, so I had that going for me. I got lucky and found a lot of good offensive equipment and espers pretty early, but my defense was definitely lacking and I wiped a couple times. Fun!

One thing that got me several times is that an exit that you just came out of doesn't always lead back to where you came from. I'm not sure if I think it's a good thing or not...

I have a suggestion, if it's not too much trouble to implement (as an option). During map randomization, when considering which exits should go where, would it be possible to give more weight to maps with the same tileset as the current one, so as to get a kind of clustering effect. I think it would help make it easier to navigate the labyrinth if you have some bigger areas with a coherent theme. You could even designate "neighbour" tilesets so that mountains lead to caves, towns lead to indoors etc.

Also, is there a technical reason that map exits along the edges of maps don't go anywhere? I realize it's more tedious work to go through maps and make edge exits connect to other open-edged maps but it would be pretty nice.

I guess what I'm leading up to is would it be too much trouble to implement a "Slightly Less Chaotic Chaos Tower" mode?
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#96
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Quote:I guess what I'm leading up to is would it be too much trouble to implement a "Slightly Less Chaotic Chaos Tower" mode?

Indeed: Beyond Chaos is what it is, because is beyond chaos!
Too much people keeps to ask for a less beyond chaos mode, but then it wouldn't be anymore "beyond"... maybe it would become "before chaos randomizer", which sounds lame even in the title.
Aren't flags enough for choosing how to randomize the hack?


PS. paper maps are the right answer... yourself admitted that it was pretty oldschool and awesome.


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#97
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Hey seibaby, thanks for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed it. For the speedcave, maybe "one sitting" is a bit misleading. I think that it is doable in one sitting for someone who is well-prepared and knowledgeable about both the cave and FF6. For reference, I can probably do the speedcave in about 4 hours, assuming I plan appropriately, take good notes, and get decent luck.

Clustering maps based on tileset is definitely possible, but I'm not sure it would be a positive change. My biggest concern is the town maps, which have so many exits that they currently function as a kind of hub world. It's nice to have those maps spread out across many different sections of the dungeon. If they were all clustered together, one party would have to do a lot of exploring all at once. I also think it might be a bit confusing for, say, figaro castle interior and doma castle interior to be connected together, or the two Zozo maps with big staircases that I sometimes have difficulty telling apart. And based on the available maps, the clustering effect would have to be quite strong, I think, for players to even notice a difference... especially in the speedcave, which has half as many maps.

I'd like to make better use of the "edge" exits, or the "long" exits as they're sometimes called. When I first made the dungeon randomizer, I went through every map and noted all of the exits that I could use. However, at that time, I still didn't know the format for long exits, so I left those out. To properly use the long exits, I'll have to go through each map again, and make some changes to BC as well. That said, I'm not sure if properly using long exits would be a good thing either. They're a bit more vague, and in my opinion they're a lot easier to miss or forget than the doorway exits. I've trained so many users to avoid the long exits that they might have difficulty adjusting. I don't necessarily think that's a good enough reason not to use them, but it's something worth considering.




https://github.com/abyssonym/beyondchaos
Beyond Chaos is a full-game randomizer for FF6.
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#98
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Hello! I recently discovered Beyond Chaos, and I am really enjoying it!

I tried a bit of the Ancient Cave too, and I do like it, especially all random, which makes it harder, I know, but more fun in a way. Laugh

I'm currently having a very interesting time in a main game run.
Terra started off looking like Celes, and has the slowest speed of all my character with a whopping 18 base.
That's a lot of fun in the beginning. Hit

Especially since for some reason, some of the early game monsters right outside Narshe all spawn with Cause back attack flag even if you had the back guard relic equiped.

I'm up to the Opera house, or nearly there rather.

Some highlights include Sabin looking like Cyan and having access to R-chaos, which is really amazing, especially when you get Fallen One.
According to the Text file, I won't get a thief until Relm who looks like Terra.
Both her and Strago are going to learn the major attack spells by themselves, which is nice.

Umaro is going to be interesting when I recruit him, since he comes with a R-Nuke ability, and 73 vigor.
The only way that could get more sillier is if he spawned with Swordtech maxed out and it was fast instead of slow to charge.
Strago is going to be the Sabin of the game this run too, which will be neat.

I'm assuming R-Nuke is like free Ultima spam? Tongue R-Chaos is nice, but randomly getting Fallen One 1/256 times isn't going to help you in all hard fights.
Also, some spell shows up called Joker Doom, but it just deals damage to an enemy. Condemned and Roulette are helpful though.

Oh, Katanasoul guarded a chest on the Phantom Train. That was so fun, really, level 16 characters against him. Every battle started with, "Everyone dies." etc until I got lucky.
Thankfully, I confuse spammed him with tools, and eventually won by him beating himself up.

I did get a well fought for Minerva though, which a lot more people can wear.

Also, according to the treasure list, I think I'm going to end up with 4 cursed shields by the end of the game. 4 Paladin shields is nothing to sneeze at. Smile
Anyway, sorry for rambling, I just thought I'd tell you my experiences, and Tenkarider D suggested you might want want the feedback.

I totally don't mind being called the Rambling Kefka-Man
Also, Locke in my party looks like Setzer, and Celes is Relm who's named Berry.
That's going to get weird later.
Berry also has the worst load out, Fight, GP Rain, Ice, and Item. Sad

Cyan is the new Umaro, oddly, a bit approrate for a fighter/beserker named Light.

Oh, neat thing I noticed in the text file, in the WoR, in the city of Maranda, I can buy Elixers in shops for 65,000 GP. Smile
Apparently, the game wants to reward me for tents and sleeping bags being absurdly 2x the price to 3.4 times the base game's price.
And Genji armor in South Figaro WoR for 65,000.

I think either I am really lucky, or you might want to nerf something.
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#99
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Hey, welcome to the FF6 Hacking forums. Thanks for coming here to post about it. I'm glad you're enjoying Beyond Chaos and I liked reading about your experiences.
  • Yeah, R-Chaos is a very special ability. It's supposed to break the game. It's kind of like a built-in cheat code for players who are persistent enough to keep re-rolling it. If it rolls Bababreath, you can even permanently remove a character from your party.
  • You're right about R-Nuke, it uses a damaging non-elemental skill at random, which includes Ultima but also Exploder and Crusader.
  • The "Joker Doom" spell is actually the swdtech "Dispatch", I think. Something about the swdtechs makes their names weird and I never figured it out.
  • It sounds like the challenge level is right where I want it to be. Normally I'd think that Katanasoul on the Phantom Train is a bit much, but you were able to defeat him! Laugh Buyable Elixirs and Genji Armor are nice, but not really game-breaking... the difficulty really ramps up in the World of Ruin, and I want the game to be beatable, after all.
I'd be happy to know how the rest of your playthrough goes. You might have some difficulty getting through the rest of the game, even with all that luck. Wink




https://github.com/abyssonym/beyondchaos
Beyond Chaos is a full-game randomizer for FF6.
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Ah. I wondered about R-Nuke.
Since Crusader is more like, "Haha, you blow yourself up!", that's going to be a bit fun. Smile

Someone gets R-Heavy later too, which looks like it might be interesting.

And I actually experienced the Bababreath spell, but it hit my enemies instead of me. Smile

I look forward to the rest of the game and the challenge. Even now, by the Opera, the game isn't easy, even with R-Chaos, so it looks like it will be a decent challenge so far.

I guess GP Rain wouldn't be too bad in the early World of Ruin. Smile

I do like R-Chaos, even though sometimes I rewind the game a bit if it decides, "No, you need Spiraler!" Or whatever Sabin's kill himself for the party spell is called. Tongue
It's a lot of fun to cast Goner or flare star though.
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