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FFVI - Children of Vector

#41
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(06-02-2014, 04:41 PM)tenkarider Wrote: Now that i explained me better, it's all ok? good luck with your project! Smile

It's all ok. It was never not ok. That rant wasn't about you. I'm just oversensitive to that subject in-particular and I just used you as a launching pad to my soap-box. Sorry if I made you feel misunderstood.
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#42
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lol you used me Laugh
jk, it's all ok Wink


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#43
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You know I understand what Edrin is saying.. I have to say that since this is a new mod, that from what I can see changes everything. Then the difficulty will be there because you have to relearn what happens and what to do and what the best combinations there are for the characters. So in sense it will have difficulty and if he doesn't make the monsters push overs which I'm sure he wont. Even if he gives them the originally FFIV Stats then this mod will ROCK lol.
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#44
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That for sure, but it's also a chance to set a new balance compared to ff6 of snes.
Just examples: let's say that he'll add supernova and darkhole skill, i'd be happy to use dark hole to do 6000 damage with a mage(instead of 3000 with a warrior), but that will be useless if supernova will do 9999 both with mage and warrior, precisely what's happened with meteor and ultima. So it would be wise give magic only to some characters, or write a more balanced damage formula.
Other example: you have the chance to deal 8 x attacks, great... but if you do 8 x 9999 damage and not a single boss can resist to that damage, then the game is broken. Solutions? - u do great damage, but strong boss have great hp too; - 8 x attacks will never be able to do 9999 damage each blow.
I always hated weapons that let's you ignore defense with normal attacks, like Atma: thanks to that exploit Locke and Terra result stronger than Cyan and Sabin, cause parameters won't count anymore... Sweat Hold on

So... what's the lesson?

1) With a correct balance there's no need to rise difficulty: what was easy, suddenly becomes normal, if not hard;

2) If you create an interesting feature, then in the game there MUST be the need of use it somewhere, plus a PROPER reward for use that feature(like Ragnarok esper: you can transform monsters into items, but just for receive 3-4 nice items, that you still can get elsewhere; you learn ultima, but paladin shield teaches it too... so why should i have to get the esper instead of the sword, that you can even trade with Illumina?);

3) To a great force in your hands, it MUST to correspond one or more enemies which are strong enough to justify the use of that force, or that force becomes an abuse, the game become broken and there's no fun anymore in fighting;

4) Each character MUST have a unique feature, that features must follow lesson 2) and any character MUST NEVER have the chance to steal the job to one or more characters!!! If you ask me which is the perfect party in a game and i can give you the right answer, then the creator has failed in giving the same chance to shine to his characters; If i'm not able to answer, then the creator has done a great job with his characters;

5) Starting from FF7 they add a great feature: the limit break, or other names... actually even in ff6, but desperate have a meaning just in WoB, after that there's no difference at all between a Riot blade and an Atma slash... WHY??? if u create desperate, that skill MUST have something really special, another solution may be to make it become the only way to score a 9999 damage.


If u ask me, they may be the 5 golden rules to follow in order to create a perfect working battle system in an RPG, are u agree?


THE GREATEST CHALLENGE OF ALL TIMES AWAITS:
http://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/showthr...p?tid=2593
DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO SLAY A GOD?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tenkarider's project #2 is started: FF6 Curse of the Madsiur Joke (CotMJ)
http://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/showthr...p?tid=2755
What happens when Madsiur tweaks your account? This full game hack will show that!
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#45
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(06-03-2014, 04:50 PM)tenkarider Wrote: That for sure, but it's also a chance to set a new balance compared to ff6 of snes.
Just examples: let's say that he'll add supernova and darkhole skill, i'd be happy to use dark hole to do 6000 damage with a mage(instead of 3000 with a warrior), but that will be useless if supernova will do 9999 both with mage and warrior, precisely what's happened with meteor and ultima. So it would be wise give magic only to some characters, or write a more balanced damage formula.
Other example: you have the chance to deal 8 x attacks, great... but if you do 8 x 9999 damage and not a single boss can resist to that damage, then the game is broken. Solutions? - u do great damage, but strong boss have great hp too; - 8 x attacks will never be able to do 9999 damage each blow.
I always hated weapons that let's you ignore defense with normal attacks, like Atma: thanks to that exploit Locke and Terra result stronger than Cyan and Sabin, cause parameters won't count anymore... Sweat Hold on

Actually I am removing some easy-mode options (no Ultima) and rebalancing a bunch of abilities... but not in the way you might expect. I applied the 32-bit monster HP patch and the 24-bit damage patch allowing monster HP to potentially get ridiculously high (16,777,215) and for player damage to reach a theoretical 32000 damage on attack... but theres a catch. Not every ability, in fact, very few abilities can break the original 9999 cap. I am using an unused bit in the data for abilities to manually set which can break the limit and which can't, meaning I can keep quadra-slice and normal attacks capped at 9999 for their multiple hits but give things like Bum Rush the ability to compete with the damage output by being able to break the 9999 limit. I'm also planning on making it a bit harder to reach that kind of output and very few monsters will take advantage of the additional HP byte... so i'm not just upscaling everything. Damage formulas and the like are still a bit up in the air but most of this will end up being tweaked and balanced much later in production once the primary mechanics and events are in place... There's still a LOT to do before I need to work on balancing.



(06-03-2014, 04:50 PM)tenkarider Wrote: 1) With a correct balance there's no need to rise difficulty: what was easy, suddenly becomes normal, if not hard;

2) If you create an interesting feature, then in the game there MUST be the need of use it somewhere, plus a PROPER reward for use that feature(like Ragnarok esper: you can transform monsters into items, but just for receive 3-4 nice items, that you still can get elsewhere; you learn ultima, but paladin shield teaches it too... so why should i have to get the esper instead of the sword, that you can even trade with Illumina?);

3) To a great force in your hands, it MUST to correspond one or more enemies which are strong enough to justify the use of that force, or that force becomes an abuse, the game become broken and there's no fun anymore in fighting;

4) Each character MUST have a unique feature, that features must follow lesson 2) and any character MUST NEVER have the chance to steal the job to one or more characters!!! If you ask me which is the perfect party in a game and i can give you the right answer, then the creator has failed in giving the same chance to shine to his characters; If i'm not able to answer, then the creator has done a great job with his characters;

5) Starting from FF7 they add a great feature: the limit break, or other names... actually even in ff6, but desperate have a meaning just in WoB, after that there's no difference at all between a Riot blade and an Atma slash... WHY??? if u create desperate, that skill MUST have something really special, another solution may be to make it become the only way to score a 9999 damage.


If u ask me, they may be the 5 golden rules to follow in order to create a perfect working battle system in an RPG, are u agree?

These are relatively good guidelines and I agree with your theories for the most part. I'm trying to tailor my abilities to give certain characters a niche functionally... but I also like the idea of giving the player freedom on how they build. I'm a fan of parallel options, but hopefully with enough built in differences that they are accomplished differently and look different for different characters... but this is the point where I feel like I'm starting to deviate from what I want to do with the game... again, this is going to come down to stuff that will have to get decided later cause if i spend too much time doing this stuff early, it will impede on the progress I need to be making, AKA 100% new events.
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#46
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Edrin Wrote:Not every ability, in fact, very few abilities can break the original
9999 cap. I am using an unused bit in the data for abilities to manually
set which can break the limit and which can't, meaning I can keep
quadra-slice and normal attacks capped at 9999 for their multiple hits
but give things like Bum Rush the ability to compete with the damage
output by being able to break the 9999 limit.

Hmmm... would you mind sharing this unused bit?


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#47
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(06-04-2014, 07:15 AM)MrMenzies Wrote: Hmmm... would you mind sharing this unused bit?

There are 6 unused bits in Special Byte 3, under "Miss if Prot. from ailments" and "if hits, text (monster)". I just applied the 24-bit damage patch then added code in the C2 damage calcs to cap the damage at either 9,999 or 29,999 based on whether or not one of those bits was set. It was really simple as far as ASM work goes (after applying the patch anyway).
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#48
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If you use that bits, for breaking limits, you may solve most of the problems of the game Wink

Anyway... MrMenzies, i was thinking the same! LaughLaughLaugh


THE GREATEST CHALLENGE OF ALL TIMES AWAITS:
http://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/showthr...p?tid=2593
DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO SLAY A GOD?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tenkarider's project #2 is started: FF6 Curse of the Madsiur Joke (CotMJ)
http://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/showthr...p?tid=2755
What happens when Madsiur tweaks your account? This full game hack will show that!
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#49
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Thanks Edrin, this will certainly help with separation of powers in my Hack.


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So Edrin, what other characters are you planning on putting in the hack? I'm thinking a Summoner-like character maybe?

P.S. Are you going to make Siegfried a Party Member or something different?


"I'll kill someone you love, because he killed someone I love." Profound? Or Psychotic? Take your pick.
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