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ReCast FF3: War of the Magitek

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(05-25-2020, 12:24 AM)Fathlo23 Wrote: So Gi pointed out some stuff earlier but I'm just gonna post my log that I was taking last night.

There's a weird delay on ending battles.
You can also stop battles from ending by entering menus after you kill the last enemy.
You can also attack "invisible" enemies after killing them before battles end.
Yep, that's all the status display monster's fault.  Menus pause the ATB if you're not on ACTIVE mode from Config, so you can stall and even equip at the end of a battle.  Any commands that make it to the front of the queue before the enemy destroys itself also go through.  I haven't come up with a better way to display enemy status effects.

(05-25-2020, 12:24 AM)Fathlo23 Wrote: No rage decription menu. Not a bug, but with a hack like this I'm not sure why this wasn't included. (I actually realize now that there is no Stand-Alone patch for the Rage Description Menu yet). I did not bother using Gau because of this.
I'm not great with the C3 bank, so I'm not sure how I'd add descriptions to the Rage menu.  I think Angelo's extended text overhaul does something like that, but it requires expanding the ROM (which I was trying to avoid at all costs) and it really complicates changing text (which I was trying to handle exclusively with the editors: this hack remains fully compatible with FF3USME and mostly compatible with FF3LE ROGUE CE).

If it makes you feel better, there's really no bad rages to pick from (ones that self-destruct Gau).  Lobo or Oso would be safe picks if you don't want to take chances.  Once you find the Cummerbund in the World of Ruin, Gau can equip it to get the Fight command too.

(05-25-2020, 12:24 AM)Fathlo23 Wrote: Toggleable Runic without saying that it's now Toggleable somewhere in game made me think it was broken. It's also possible I missed it explaining it somewhere but I was frustrated with the TunnelArmor fight (I kept Toggling it off) and probably just missed it. Celes' text seemed to be Vanilla and I really didn't pay much attention, so possibly my fault.
It's mentioned in the classroom, but I guess I should make it more clear in the battle text for that fight.  I'll look into this.

(05-25-2020, 12:24 AM)Fathlo23 Wrote: Sometimes there is purple text on the intro. I tested this on Emulator and Console and for some reason all the Intro Text is purple, sometimes.
https://clips.twitch.tv/NaiveSoftTeaTF2John Here's a clip from the start of my stream last night. I was also able to get it to happen again on Emulator, just not consistently.
This is a bug with one of the patches I used, though I can't recall which one (might be MP digits, might be the natural magic extension, but I'm not sure how to fix it).  It only happens if the intro starts on its own, as selecting "New Game" re-initializes the config menu and sets the intro text to white.

(05-25-2020, 12:24 AM)Fathlo23 Wrote: When stealing it seems you can just farm infinite items off enemies. Not sure if this is a design choice or a bug, since
in Vanilla (and every other hack I've played) you can't steal more than once from an enemy. (I guess infinite isn't exactly correct since you can only Steal by attacking with daggers, but the main point is you can Steal from enemies more than once).
This is intentional.  While the rare item gets deleted from the monster's data once it is stolen, the common item can be stolen as many times (feasible) as you like.  This is because steal is intended as a way for Locke to store up and save critical hits, which he then spends with the Throw command.  That's also why so many enemies have weapons in their steal list instead of other items.

(05-25-2020, 12:24 AM)Fathlo23 Wrote: I've only played this until Vector right after the Opera, but these are the things that stood out to me. The hack has been
fun overall Smile
I'm glad you're enjoying it.  I hope the bugs haven't been too frustrating for you; I'm trying my best to squash them as they arise.

...I'm also wondering if anybody has recruited Mog early, and if so if they took him to the opera.
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(05-25-2020, 01:58 AM)C-Dude Wrote: ...I'm also wondering if anybody has recruited Mog early, and if so if they took him to the opera.

I did exactly this and everything worked swimmingly for me. Smile


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A minor annoyance, Siegfried shows up waaaaay too many times on the Veldt. It's cool that he actually shows up now, but he's extremely powerful and can easily wipe you out (especially during the WoB). He seems to show up repeatedly at that. Is it possible to maybe lower his chance of being encountered?
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(05-25-2020, 03:18 PM)Alby4t5 Wrote: A minor annoyance, Siegfried shows up waaaaay too many times on the Veldt.

The Veldt encounters are a little weird since I applied Wilder Randomness.  I'm not sure how to make them more vanilla, but maybe I should increase the average level threshold that triggers Siegfried phase 2 in his monster script... perhaps level 35 so that he only starts posing a problem if you're really dallying in the World of Balance.

EDIT: Changed Siegfried's trigger to level 32. Should make him a breeze when you encounter him in the World of Balance veldt. His boss mode was supposed to be a surprise, but not that early in the game. Version 1_07 (in the first post, or it will be in a minute) has this fix, extends Celes's Runic dialogue during the TunnelARMR fight, makes someone at the auction house say that Golem is for sale (not event-dependent, they'll always say this), and trades Flash for HealForce on RiverStep (because Mog doesn't use the flash AED correctly like Darryl does).
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Entering the Homecoming's Hideout or doing the scene with Gau's father (among other things) seems to clear the bit that causes the statue theme to play. Maybe you're already aware of this since going back on board the airship fixes the issue, and maybe that's the most that can realistically be done about it.

Also, when doing the scene with Gau's father in the WoB, the outside area of the house takes on its WoR appearence.


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(05-25-2020, 08:55 PM)Lockirby2 Wrote: Entering the Homecoming's Hideout or doing the scene with Gau's father (among other things) seems to clear the bit that causes the statue theme to play.  Maybe you're already aware of this since going back on board the airship fixes the issue, and maybe that's the most that can realistically be done about it.

Also, when doing the scene with Gau's father in the WoB, the outside area of the house takes on its WoR appearence.
It's actually any location with an overriding music bit.  It was the best I could get it to do; the floating continent theme gets set on the Airship deck and stays until another song overrides it.  Still, I'm glad it somewhat works rather than not doing it at all; I think it makes the situation feel more dire than the vanilla Blackjack theme or even the soft-spoken Epitaph theme I traded in for the airship.
Perhaps if I was feeling a bit more adventurous I could try to insert the music override into more entrance events at more locations... I'll consider it but I make no promises.  Much of the music ques in this hack are janky; GI Nattak was talking to me earlier about the opening theme switching from Wind to the Ruin theme... I'm debating whether I want to remove that or not.  Part of leaving it gives the game a bit of resonance, like it's reacting to you reloading the screen or finishing your first fight.  It's a tough choice to make.

"Taming of the Gau"'s event script is basically unchanged; I just switched the 'cleared' and 'set' criteria on the first event bit check for Gau's father so that his WoB and WoR reactions would be flipped.  I figured the muted tones of the World of Ruin at the end would make it feel like it was in the evening after a long day of elocution and etiquette lessons.  I seem to recall that the vanilla game uses this same effect for Leo's funeral.

Okay, so I'm watching Fathlo's playthrough and it seems he's encountering the ChocoboFlicker bug too... anybody have any ideas where I might look to squash this bug? I thought I was the only one having it, and I'm not sure how to replicate it.
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Is Onyx supposed to be a percentage-based attack that works on bosses? It's pretty broken and obsoletes basically every other attacking move unless the boss is immune to dark. Not a huge deal when you can only cast it through the Assassin, but when you can cast it directly it's way too strong.


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(05-26-2020, 07:47 PM)Lockirby2 Wrote: Is Onyx supposed to be a percentage-based attack that works on bosses?  It's pretty broken and obsoletes basically every other attacking move unless the boss is immune to dark.  Not a huge deal when you can only cast it through the Assassin, but when you can cast it directly it's way too strong.
Suplex, Slash, Gravity, and Onyx do poison damage relative to the target's HP.  On bosses it is very powerful, yes.
TetraSlice reduces the target to 1/16 of their HP and is even more broken than Onyx.

It's very powerful, indeed, but I wanted to let the player really cut loose in the World of Ruin.  I was also struggling with a way to make the gray magic attack spell different from Garnet (which ignores runic and reflect and is non-elemental) and pearl (which does damage equal to the caster's HP).

What would you propose as an alternative? Maybe I should remove those three spells from the esper learning, so that only Terra, Relm, and Celes learn them?
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I didn't even try Suplex or Slash against bosses since I assumed they wouldn't work, but IMO they are problems as well.

It doesn't matter if Garnet and Pearl have different effects if nobody ever uses them because Onyx is far and away the better option 90% of the time, and the only time it isn't is when you can kill the boss by punching it (again, excluding bosses that null poison). It's a very similar problem to vanilla's Ultima, though with different caveats.

I feel like the best case scenario (if you're willing to consider ASM work for this) would be for bosses to have a flag that causes all of these attacks to only deal 10% (maybe 15%) of their current HP. That way these attacks are still usually the most powerful option at the beginning of the fight compared to the numbers I've been able to achieve with other means, but good damage output is otherwise still useful. Even then, Tetra-Slash would be broken; IMO that should be something completely different.

My thoughts about an ASM free solution: if Terra, Celes, and Relm were the only people who could learn it, then the spell balance is less broken, but the character balance is more broken. The only way that I can see this working without any other changes is if Onyx is learned at level 70+ for all three of them. TBH, if somebody's that overleveled then the game balance doesn't really matter all that much. I could see it being okay if Suplex/Slash do 2/16 against everything; this would make them useless in randoms, but that's probably not a big deal because they still have a solid and common use case in boss fights. Again in this scenario, I think Tetra-Slash wants to be something completely different.


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  • C-Dude (05-26-2020)

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Relm learns Onyx at level 82.  Mog learns it at level 75 (then Pearl, and then Garnet, but he doesn't learn the top spells).  No other characters learn it on their own.

I'm almost inclined to turn it the other way around... make more bosses resistant to poison so that percentage attacks do 0, and have these spells be designed for random monsters.
That at least staunches the problem for the most part... though Comet or Debilitator can potentially make a boss vulnerable to poison, you have up to 8 turns wasted trying to get that cheese, and you have to be deliberately going for it at that.

I'll look through the boss flags and consider adding poison resistance to more bosses (more of them need to be immune to the poison status too, honestly).  I may also reduce Onyx's damage to 1/2 and have it apply the poison status.

EDIT: Hmm, most of the World of Ruin bosses are already neutralizing poison damage. The dream stooges don't (because you're supposed to slice them up with Cyan), the dragons don't (which is admittedly an oversight on my part), and Corpus doesn't (because he thought status magic was lame and Spectre's going to teach him a lesson). Onyx might not be as big of a problem as it currently appears... did you use it to shoot through Tentacles or Chardanook?
Any which way, I'll look into setting poison immunity and poison element immunity for the 8 dragons.
...Well, maybe not all of them. Having Onyx to use on Yloh is one of the strats to beat that monster, and will be nice if you run into it repeatedly on the Veldt. Daednu gets healed by poison already. Imanust has the whole rippler thing going on, so inflicting poison status isn't as much of a cheese there.
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