Poll: What thing about RPGs do you dislike the most?
This poll is closed.
Random battles 18.63% 79 18.63%
The need to grind/level up 20.28% 86 20.28%
Too much reading 2.59% 11 2.59%
Solo character parts 2.83% 12 2.83%
NPCs blocking your movement 8.96% 38 8.96%
Linearity 6.13% 26 6.13%
Cliche story 4.48% 19 4.48%
Cliche characters 3.07% 13 3.07%
Weak final boss 12.03% 51 12.03%
Imbalance 4.48% 19 4.48%
Nonsensical/loopholes 3.07% 13 3.07%
Lack of backstory 3.77% 16 3.77%
Too time intensive 1.18% 5 1.18%
The need to heal after battles 2.83% 12 2.83%
Other/Nothing 5.66% 24 5.66%
Total 424 vote(s) 100%
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What thing about RPGs do you dislike the most?

#11
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Since this seems to be the perfect thread to bi... state things that piss you off, here's one I thought of after seeing Gi's new patch.

When every random battle makes you stop and heal afterwards. I mean, random battles (not counting your special miniboss type) are supposed to wear you down, try your endurance. Make you plan long term on how much energy you can use to destroy that little fluffy bunny and still have enough for the ninjas in the next room. Every random battle shouldn't be a boss fight, they are ment to anony, not rape you and leave your party laying in a pool of blood, swallowing potions by the dozen.

I guess that would fall under "balancing" wouldn't it?


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#12
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I went with a need to grind. If an RPG requires need to grind to progress, it's kind of lazy. See Final Fantasy III, where the difficulty stems from attacks dealing more damage and enemies attacking more times, not other RPGs which often have more clever balancing, like Bravely Default, for example.


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#13
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(05-10-2015, 07:55 AM)Catone Wrote: Since this seems to be the perfect thread to bi... state things that piss you off, here's one I thought of after seeing Gi's new patch.

When every random battle makes you stop and heal afterwards. I mean, random battles (not counting your special miniboss type) are supposed to wear you down, try your endurance. Make you plan long term on how much energy you can use to destroy that little fluffy bunny and still have enough for the ninjas in the next room. Every random battle shouldn't be a boss fight, they are ment to anony, not rape you and leave your party laying in a pool of blood, swallowing potions by the dozen.

I guess that would fall under "balancing" wouldn't it?

I don't know... I'd say that if the random encounter doesn't make you stop and heal afterwards, it doesn't test your endurance very much at all. Well, unless the reason why you didn't have to stop and heal was because you used MP or an offensive item to finish the battle more easily (then that tests your endurance too). If you're not using any resources, or not using them often, then you could pretty much go on forever in that dungeon. Especially in a game like FF6 where a lot of attacks are free, so you can almost always use all of your power in any encounter anyways (whether against a fluffy bunny or a ninja), so healing is generally the main endurance test.

To me, a random encounter is getting too close to being a boss fight when you have to heal during the encounter to survive. Unless it is a rare but powerful encounter, or if the game is intended to be very difficult (or the specific area within an easier game is, as in a super-dungeon or something).

I understand not wanting to open the menu to heal after every fight though. Your post is making me think that it would be cool to have a system in a game where you can specify what kind of resources that you want to use (Cure spells, Items, etc.) and an HP threshold that you want to be above after every battle, so that it can auto-heal for you, although maybe something like this has been done already. Not necessarily for an FF6 hack, though.

Cecil pretty much hit the nail on the head as to what I think of games with forced grinding.


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#14
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Yeah, that's what I ment by healing after battle, more so during battle would be a better way to put it. Don't get me wrong, the feeling of winning a hard fought battle is great, but every random encounter shouldn't be a white knuckle, pheonix down burning, potion chugging struggle that requires you to save every three steps because a fluffy bunny hits for 400 and your tank has 450hp. Well, one way or the other, yes that's what I ment, not so much healing after battle but revive and heal after battle, or maybe better to say "must" heal because nobody in your party has more than 10hp left from your first random battle after the inn.

As for grinding, by FF3 (the NES 3 btw) yes that was the bad kind of required extreme grinding. As far as most RPG's grinding should be optional. IF I choose to take the time to train/prepair for a dungeon so I can go breeze through the boss, that's my choice. If I choose not to take the time to grind/prep then the dungeon should be a serious challenge. Hell, personally to me that choice is the defining trait I call an RPG and why I play them.

A good example is the option to grind Sabin up to where he has Fire Dance before doing the Narsh battlefield. You don't HAVE to grind, but the grinding pays off if you do it. The battle is just a little more difficult without it.

Charge in and fight for your life, or take the time to prep before and not have a struggle. If a player has that choice then can you really call it "forced"?


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#15
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From my point of view healing after battle cannot be removed, as element from any RPG, that's one of the vital features of this genre: attrition(or starvation?) is why random battles exist, besides without that, if you can have free full heals, then you can't define it "dungeon crawling", since it implies that, as you proceed inside the place and reach deeper floors(or whatever), you start to lose all MPs and finish consumables, at the point that you have to consider the option of retreat(in worst of the cases)

PS. the first FF that made fully restore HP after battle was FF XIII... look what wappened. Finger


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#16
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Healing after battle was the least of problems when you talk about FFXIII. Didn't help it any but...

Still, when I say "healing" I'm not talking a top off or the top 5-10% hp/mp. I'm talking every random battle finished with dead/near death status and half your mp gone. As in every random battle a 20 minute boss fight (hell there is another "issue", when random battles take way to long. FF4 and the... Death Mask, or any Flan in FF4 when you didnt have magic).

Here's a poll type question: WHAT is the appropriate time frame for a random battle for an average party for that area? ( during an endurance dungeon crawl, saving mp for big fights, etc type deal).

Second question: How many random battles should an average leveled party be able to do before they MUST heal? (Not counting stuff like Instant death or demi type (remove % hp type)).


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#17
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I feel like the answer is:
- average time: 2 minutes;
- healing after 1-2 battles(doing a low level healing spell to the party 2-3 times)


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#18
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Basically a combination of a few of these.

I just cannot play a game if I don't like the battle system, and if the battle system is really good, then I don't mind grinding, games that follow this are things like Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean The Last Hope and Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World (That tales game in particular since you need to farm to get enemies to join you and the way you use different elemental artes to fill the recruitment or the limit break gauge is very well done.)

If the characters are bland, uninteresting or just poorly written, I can tolerate it if the rest of the game makes up for it. (aka, battle system combined with art style.) but it really makes me uninterested in the story and I'll often just skim past the plot and say 'alright, who's next to DIE!?'

If the story is just bad and relies on plotholes and not even explaining the plot, then it's... pretty... awful and it takes a REALLY good battle system for me to overlook it.

I enjoy story, but if the game is nothing but story, then I'd just read a book, and some games, I played a game that literally had 40+ minute cutscenes. I forget the name of it, but you kill a boss, and you have FORTY MINUTES of nothing but cutscenes before you can even move your character.

I going to do a LP of that game, and at the time, you had a hard timelimit of 15 minutes otherwise youtube wouldn't let you upload the video.

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO RECORD A LP FOR A GAME THAT HAS 40+ MINUTE CUTSCENES!?

As for cliche characters, there's tropes.

And it's literally impossible to NOT have tropes, since you can avert them, play it straight or subtly use them, ergo it's impossible to not have cliches...

But overall, you just need balance between everything in the game that isnt too heavy, isn't too light and played just right.

But I really like games like Final Fantasy 9 that if you just play it normally, you miss out on all the sidequest things that by themselves, have potentially 30+ hours and so much background story and fleshes out the game and its characters that require multiple playthroughs in order to master everything the game has to offer.

On the same coin, I dislike the system of Persona 3 and 4 with fixed dates and all kinds of micro management in which you need to juggle your social life, try to pinpoint the exact dates you need to spend with certain people, which days you can train your characters, which days you need to go to the shrine and wish you're closer to your friends, which days you need to go fishing for a friggin' goldfish to make a guy not afraid of cats and not even be able to buy breadcrumbs to buy them...

I love the Persona games, but 3 suffers from idiotic team AI that makes me miss turns (bad combat system) and it has a tedious date system where we need to micromanage and save scum in order to try to get good school results and social links, whereas 4 vastly improved the battle system, but still had the micromanagement of the social links and everything else.

I want to play a game where calling upon a former life of myself gives me magical powers, not going to class and failing English because I spent too much time killing demons and not reading Of Mice and Men...


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#19
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I went with the 'Need to heal after battles'. It's probably the main reason I don't enjoy FFIV as much as the other games. Though if the random battles have a sparing RNG for encounters, then I can accept that. But when you combine it to having battles every third step (true story), it gets really annoying.

If you have a good amount of MP though, it's not that bad, but still, having to stop for a minute every battle, heal, lose mp/objects, waste time trying to Osmose/steal potions, which would lead to more enemy attacks, it gets really aggravating for me.
Even better if you arrive at an unexpected boss fight with your white mage's mp half empty.


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