Desperation+ Patch

So I'm thinking of making a little patch to ease back into hacking that will make the desperation system more usable. What I need is some input on how you guys would like it to work... here are some things to consider:

• Random vs. Semi-random vs. Non-random - how much control does the player have over the system?
  
• Frequency - how often should desperation attacks be available? once a fight? on-demand? gauge-based?
  
• Power - should the attacks be weaker/stronger?
  

Feel free to model your ideas after other FF installments: FF7's limit bars, FF8's limit-levels, FF9's... no... no not 9's... , FFRK's Soul Break system... there are a lot of choices, but I'd also love to make something totally new that meshes with FF6... so let me know what you think!

As far as my own personal goals for the hack... I'm hoping for it to be as non-invasive as possible, which means keeping the ASM to replacing code rather than using a bunch of free space. This keeps it from potentially clashing with other hacks.

So tell me what you want to see! This is a long-overdue patch idea... unless, of course, someone has already done it... in which case... meh.

Happy Hacking!

I'm almost certain nobody has done this.

I think for this to work better you'll probably want more common, but weaker damage instead of egregiously powerful and egregiously rare effects. Right now the desperation attacks are so rare that new players probably don't even know they exist, while veterans who do know they exist can dole out over half a boss' HP in the WoB. That's fine for the JRPG style where Rule of Cool generally trumps game balance (which is okay in itself), but since you're trying to make it a usable game mechanic that's probably not what you want. Of course, you probably won't be deciding the power entirely anyways because the hacker using the patch could probably adjust the power to adjust for their game's sense of scale.

While FF8's Limit system is closer to FF6's than FF7's, FF8's Limit system was extremely abusable, and I'm not really a fan of it. FF7's is definitely a lot better if it's manageable, at least if I'm going to be lazy and just say "Do what that game did in this game". I can't think of a fully functional unique system off the top of my head, I'll probably do some more thinking about it later. Preferably it would have some way of scaling in the endgame, but that might be really hard if you're not using extra space...

An option I would like is disabling them entirely, freeing up the Desperation Attack slot in the ability list to be used for other purposes without risk (I lack the free enemy abilities to use Custom Tools, for instance). An option to give Gau and Umaro Desperation Attacks would be nice, too.

An option I would like is disabling them entirely, freeing up the Desperation Attack slot in the ability list to be used for other purposes without risk (I lack the free enemy abilities to use Custom Tools, for instance). An option to give Gau and Umaro Desperation Attacks would be nice, too.

My guess is that this would be an easy patch to make, and could probably be separate from this patch.

A quick answer would be FF7 Limit system because it's my favorite desperation system (with a Hype/Sad status possibility) though if you can come up with something totally new that has never been seen that should probably be the route you take.

An option I would like is disabling them entirely, freeing up the Desperation Attack slot in the ability list to be used for other purposes without risk (I lack the free enemy abilities to use Custom Tools, for instance). An option to give Gau and Umaro Desperation Attacks would be nice, too.

My guess is that this would be an easy patch to make, and could probably be separate from this patch.

This was already done in FF6: Is the Best Game Ever.  The skills aren't named in FF3usME though so you have to memorize them by the location in the drop down list of abilities.  Writing monster code gets weird too because you have to know the ASM code for the ability, and it'll just say ??? in the script for FF3usME.

I'm almost certain nobody has done this.

I think for this to work better you'll probably want more common, but weaker damage instead of egregiously powerful and egregiously rare effects.  Right now the desperation attacks are so rare that new players probably don't even know they exist, while veterans who do know they exist can dole out over half a boss' HP in the WoB.  That's fine for the JRPG style where Rule of Cool generally trumps game balance (which is okay in itself), but since you're trying to make it a usable game mechanic that's probably not what you want.  Of course, you probably won't be deciding the power entirely anyways because the hacker using the patch could probably adjust the power to adjust for their game's sense of scale.

While FF8's Limit system is closer to FF6's than FF7's, FF8's Limit system was extremely abusable, and I'm not really a fan of it.  FF7's is definitely a lot better if it's manageable, at least if I'm going to be lazy and just say "Do what that game did in this game".  I can't think of a fully functional unique system off the top of my head, I'll probably do some more thinking about it later.  Preferably it would have some way of scaling in the endgame, but that might be really hard if you're not using extra space...

One way to help with scaling is to mess with damage formulas to alter damage in however many ways... but in favor of avoiding patch conflicts with other edits to the damage formula i'll likely go another route. Maybe make the attacks increasingly accessable later in game, so they are a big help early game but harder to pull off, and a sustainable strategy later on then balance the DPS based on end-game. The problem with FF8 was Limits were supposed to be slightly less accessable than they were and there were tiers of limit breaks... so late game they got really strong and really frequent... since we are currently working with 1-per-character (tho it could hypothetically change), it should be a lot easier to regulate.

An option I would like is disabling them entirely, freeing up the Desperation Attack slot in the ability list to be used for other purposes without risk (I lack the free enemy abilities to use Custom Tools, for instance).

While i considered this for my original hack... its technically the exact opposite of what i want to do with this patch.

A quick answer would be FF7 Limit system because it's my favorite desperation system (with a Hype/Sad status possibility) though if you can come up with something totally new that has never been seen that should probably be the route you take.

my only beef (yes i said beef) with the FF7 limit system would be that id need to do some graphical work (honestly not that bad), and also it would take up some free RAM to store limit values... not crossing it out as an option by any means, just noting the things that could cause conflicts with existing hacks.

Never played ff7 but I really liked it in ff8.  Finding game balance is always tough but isn't feeling a lil overpowered the trick to rpgs?  I personally would like a gauge meter or some sort of indicator of when the limit break is reached. (maybe a glow or arrow of some sort).  I don't like how it currently only works at random with a character at low health...  I would rather have it select-able at all hp levels but increase chances if some party members are dead, stoned, zombied..  basically like the whole crisis level they had.

Never played ff7 but I really liked it in ff8.  Finding game balance is always tough but isn't feeling a lil overpowered the trick to rpgs?  I personally would like a gauge meter or some sort of indicator of when the limit break is reached. (maybe a glow or arrow of some sort).  I don't like how it currently only works at random with a character at low health...  I would rather have it select-able   at all hp levels but increase chances if some party members are dead, stoned, zombied..  basically like the whole crisis level they had.

I guess we're coming from different places with respect to RPGs.  I prefer the feeling of overcoming something more powerful than my characters to the feeling of my characters being overpowered.

To be fair, I'd be more open to FF8's system if you simply canned the ability to skip a whole bunch of turns in order to bring up a limit break.  I think that was the major design flaw that ruined that limit break system IMO.  It's honestly one of the factors that makes the entire game unreplayable for me despite having an okay time my first time through.  Limit breaks lose all sense of being special if you can essentially bring one up every turn. I'd still prefer FF7's though.

This was already done in FF6: Is the Best Game Ever.  The skills aren't named in FF3usME though so you have to memorize them by the location in the drop down list of abilities. 

Desperation attacks are spells $F0 to $FC. They are named in FF3usME. Removing them should be no more than a 2-3 bytes change.