Fuse Discussion Thread

Fuse will be Iris' special ability! But before we move onto working out special abilities, we need to talk logistics. Here is the original description for Fuse:

She would "Fuse" with an esper. I guess it could be with the equipped one, or within a list of 6-8. The esper could appear behind her, like with sketch. Thereafter, a second battle menu appear, like with "control", and she use ability related to the esper, not necessarily the spells she gives. Like Gau, she would gain status ailment and elemental resistances of the esper. Part of her pallette could change depending on the esper with a custom status ailment.
With this, you have great versality and you will be able to discover new things with each esper.
Also, another possiblity is, we could make the ability a lot stronger, but make it that a magicite is required to use the ability

Also, are we discussing about a relic that change the ability? Like fakemustache?
If so, i suggest that the relic change "Fuse" for "Wild Magic", which cast a random magic black magic, but alot stronger than the normal version. It could also rarely cast esper attack.

We need to discuss what kinds of moves we will be populating our moves with, and how we intend to do this visually.

This strikes me as a very visual ability set, first, we need to get the esper on the screen, then signify the fusion between Iris and the esper, and finally, we need to visually alter Iris' sprite so that we can tell it has been fused. All of these will likely require a LOT of ASM work.

So, what other options do we have? Are there less ASM-intensive options that would give us a similar feel? What kinds of changes should be made when she fuses; sprite, palette, stats? And for abilities; How many abilities per esper? do all espers have fuses? And lastly, do we want to keep or throw out the Wild Magic portion of the ability, or maybe alter it?

There is a lot here to go through so lets figure out what's best.

Happy Hacking!

1. Number of Abilities per esper and number of esper:
To me, the more the better. But at the same time, we must be realistic. If we have too much, its gonna be like Gau and your gonna choose randomly most of the time. So, 8 esper, 4 abilities, if we can
2. Power Progress Idea:
A little idea i had was, give her only 3 abilities per esper at first. But after her sidequest in Wor or with a endgame relic, she gain the fourth ability for each esper.
This way you would rediscover every esper again.

3. Esper and abilities to use:
Heres some example of what i thought:
Esper: Siren
Role: Balanced
Elemental Weakness:Strong Fire, Weak Ice
Abilities:
-Physical 1 Enemy, Silence 25%
-Fire All enemies
-?

Esper: Kirin
Role: Healer
Elemental Weakness: Strong Holy, Weak Poison
Abilities:
-Holy 1 enemy
-Regen all allies
-Cure all allies

Esper: Golem
Role: Buffer
Elemental: Strong Earth, Weak Water
Abilities:
-Start with Protect
-Earth 1 Enemy
-Protect + Shell 1 Ally
-Golem esper buff all ally?

Esper: Shoat
Role: Damage Dealer
Elemental: Strong Poison, Weak Holy
Abilities:
-Phys 1 enemy, Death 25%
-PoisonElemental All enemy
- Counter attack ?

Esper: Fenrir
Role: Balanced
Elemental:
Abilities:
-Start with True knight?
-Phys All enemy
-Image all Ally
-?

Esper: Tritoch
Role: Elemental Damage Dealer
Elemental: Strong Fire,Ice, Thunder
Abilities:
-Wild Magic? lol

4. Visual appearance after fusion
I guess if we could give her skin color the same as the esper could nice. Although it might be hard to do for some esper... If we can have a custom status ailment, it could be some sort of energy halo around her.

5. Fusion visual appearance
I guess the easiest way, as i proposed before, would be to do like with Sketch. It could also be done like an esper attack, Iris does EsperCasting-Screen goes a bit darker-all character but Iris disappear - Esper Appear - ??? - Profit.

I agree mostly on Daemoth's ideas but I think we should make her an even more viable character by using her "magic" slot for her own personal spell list.

After all, why throw out the work you put in, right?

I think after a Fusion she should have access to certain list of spells. One probably being the pure essence of the esper themselves (or the summoning of them). This would grant to her magic that no one else has access to.

I think that might be overdoing it a bit. Also, we already have code to give her a unique magic list and one of our hopes for the project was to make a working template for anyone to add a 15th full character to the game. Still, we could just save the code for future projects and give her a unique second option, its up the you guys!

My main concern is building too many unique abilities for her. I think I've got the code figured out to expand the ability list past 255 using a branching mechanism based on the command ID, but I'm wary of giving her 4 brand new abilities times 8+ espers (already 32 abilities right there), and then giving her unique magic on top of that. It seems like overkill for one character, plus, there are a lot of good viable skills already in the game, making that many abilities would end up being redundant. I would say 1-2 new abilities per fuse and fill it out with existing skills, then a regular magic list like everyone else.

I want to hear from more people!

@Daemoth: When you say Fire (all enemies), do you mean that she'll actually cast a Fire spell on all enemies, or that she'll use an as-of-yet unnamed fire elemental attack that isn't necessarily Fire on all enemies? I figure that it's the latter (especially since Holy right when you get Kirin would be pretty OP), but your post is throwing me a bit...

I would also have to add that I'd expect Siren to be water elemental rather than fire. I've always thought of Sirens as monsters you encounter while at sea. I know that Siren teaches Fire, but this just makes more sense to me.

I think that a good idea would be to make Iris slightly more proficient in the elements that are somewhat underused. This would emphasize the "strangeness" of her fighting style, since she'd be using the elements that the other casters mostly forsake. It would also have the obvious benefit of boosting your ability to hit those weaknesses (seriously, Holy/Poison elements only have around three attacks each). In that regard, I propose we allow her to use Palidor as a wind Esper.

I agree with Edrin about the Magic command. I fear that too many deviations from the pattern will make her stick out like a sore thumb.

As for Wild Magic, it's an interesting ability, but I just don't feel it relates to Fuse much at all, other than Espers being the ones who give you magic. I would have to say no to it personally, as it would seem like we're trying to cram another ability on her, but maybe everybody else thinks otherwise.

Dang, I'm getting that annoying feeling that I forgot to say something...

PS: Also, I don't choose randomly with Gau. =P

@Lockirby:About the Fire(Elemental), indeed, i meant "as-of-yet unnamed fire elemental attack that isn't necessarily Fire on all enemies".

About the elemental type being the underused, thats exactly what i was thinking about.

And about Gau, i was speaking about normal player aka people that didnt play the game too many times like us.

Also, what do you mean when you say "but your post is throwing me a bit...". Btw, english isnt my mother tongue.

@Daemoth: It seems we're on the same page about this. I like how this is coming together!

If I say that something is throwing me, or that it's throwing me off, I mean that it's confusing me, essentially. Stupid English, why don't you make sense?

Instead of boiling it down to 8 espers that work, why not categorize the espers into elements and have one fuse pre element, decided by the esper equipped?

@Lockirby: Lol, well if theres something i can explain, just ask
When i write a status ailment and then a percentage, it means that the attack should inflict the status ailment X percent of time. For example, Siren first ability would inflict silence 25% of the time. Also, when i wrote "Start with" and then a buff, it meant that she would automatically gain that buff when she fuse.

@Edrin: I think it would be better that she doesnt have fusion with the mainstream element ( fire, ice, bolt) cause if the player want to do one of those element, he just have to use his normal magic. Plus, all other character in the game have access to those element.

To those that have hacking knowledge, are there things you guys apprehend to be hard to do?

Heres a revised esper list:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Esper: Siren
Role: Balanced
Elemental Weakness:Strong Water, Weak Ice
Abilities:
-Physical 1 Enemy, Silence 25%
-Water All enemies
-?

Esper: Kirin
Role: Healer
Elemental Weakness: Strong Holy, Weak Poison
Abilities:
-Holy 1 enemy
-Regen all allies (Kirin Esper attack)
-Cure all allies

Esper: Golem
Role: Buffer
Elemental: Strong Earth, Weak Water
Abilities:
-Start with Protect
-Earth 1 Enemy
-Protect + Shell 1 Ally
-Golem esper buff (Golem Esper attack)

Esper: Shoat
Role: Damage Dealer
Elemental: Strong Poison, Weak Holy
Abilities:
-Phys 1 enemy, Death 25%
-PoisonElemental All enemy
-Quatr?
- Counter attack ?

Esper: Palidor
Role: Damage Dealer
Elemental: Strong wind, Weak Thunder
Abilities:
-Start with float
-WindElemental all enemy
-Jump?
-Haste All ally

Esper: Fenrir
Role: Balanced
Elemental:
Abilities:
-Gain True knight buff
-Phys All enemy
-Image all Ally
-StrongPhys 1 Enemy, Unblockable

Esper: Tritoch
Role: Elemental Damage Dealer
Elemental: Strong Fire,Ice, Thunder
Abilities:
-Wild Magic( Cast Fire3,Ice3,Bolt3 or flare?)
- Tri-Dazer look alike aka Fire,Ice,Bolt Elemental on All enemy, Unblockable

I feel that an Esper for each element would be systematic, which I'd normally go for, but I don't think it fits Iris. I like how the espers fit together right now, with one for each of the five awkward elements, one that is multi-element, as well as a physical Esper. I think that the last Esper should be a sort of "ultimate" Esper to round out the set and give a definitive choice for the endgame. This would be a good way to ensure that her Magic command doesn't completely outpace Fuse by the end of the game. We already have the ability to learn a fourth attack per Esper to mitigate that, but presuming that occurs about halfway through the WoR, it will likely be outdated by Kefka's Tower. I also think that this is a good idea because many of the other characters have an ability that can be considered their "ultimate" skill.

As I see it, one option could be to give Ragnarok to her, which would add an extra dimension to the choice between the two forms of Ragnarok. I honestly don't like that idea myself, since it would make one of her Espers missable, but we're just brainstorming, so I figure that I should at least mention the idea.

Another option for an ultimate Esper is to give her Bahamut. I don't like that idea either, since you can get Bahamut too early, and then her other Fuses will be pretty much worthless for a large portion of the game.

The other option could be to give her Crusader as an Esper. Crusader sucks, considering all the trouble that you go through to get it, so it really needs a boost in its usefulness. You also get it right next to the end of the game, so it won't be breaking the balance of the other Fuses. My only concern is that you might get it too late, although it's only really meant to be used right at the end anyways.