Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
Plot Twists in Remasters

#1
Posts: 220
Threads: 18
Thanks Received: 90
Thanks Given: 99
Joined: Dec 2018
Reputation: 14
Status
Moog
I've been thinking about plot in ROM hacks, which are basically fan remasters, partly because I'm procrastinating on town exterior maps and partly because I need to do some sprite work, for which a character's plot is relevant.  This brought my mind around to direct sequels and remasters.  When you remaster a game, you basically present a familiar scenario in an unfamiliar way.  Because of this it is effectively impossible to surprise the player.  Thus, your only outlet for surprise is presenting an idea in a novel way or creating shock with a change they did not expect.

But how do players react to that?  How far can we deviate from what the audience expects before it irritates rather than surprises?  I want to discuss character changes.

(1) Survival
A character dies in the original but lives in the remaster, or lives in the original but dies in the remaster

(2) Morphology
A character is younger or older than in the original, or their gender or physical characteristics are changed

(3) Temporal Scenario Displacement
A character is present earlier or later in the story than they were in the original

(4) Morality
A character who was antagonistic in the original has a more complex or even beneficial role to the party in the remaster.  Unplayable characters become playable



Let me pose these another way, as questions about the Final Fantasy series.
(1) In FF5, what if Galuf survived but Reina perished?
(2) In FF4, if the Feymarch didn't accelerate time, should Rydia be a teenager in both Mist and Dwarven castle, or a child?  If Rydia is a child, should Edge be a child too?
(3) In FF6, what if Relm was recruited on the Lete River, or the Veldt?  Would you want her to leave the party and have a 'vanillish' reintroduction at Thamasa?
(4) In FF1, what if Princess Sara was one of the Warriors of Light?  What about Bikke the pirate?

Basically, what do you expect to remain unchanged in a remake and what changes would you tolerate?
  Find
Quote  

#2
Posts: 365
Threads: 38
Thanks Received: 149
Thanks Given: 96
Joined: Feb 2017
Reputation: 22
Status
None
I think one of the keys is that you have to love the original. People will be able to tell immediately if you don't. That's pretty easy though, as you wouldn't be doing a hack if you didn't love it.

Second key is that your changes need to fit the original as much as possible. Change only what is necessary. Don't add in jokes or 4th wall breaks. Try to make the story feel like it was meant to be that way all along.

Third, don't worry about surprises. People aren't looking to be shocked; they're looking for the little nods. They're looking to see characters interact with each other in new ways.

I have written a lot of new scenes for my Divergent Paths hack, many of which I'm excited to finally be able to share with you guys (once I finally get time to finish it). But one of my favorite changes is very understated. It's a change to the scene where Gau meets his father. In the original game, this was triggered with Sabin, since Sabin is the one who originally found Gau on the Veldt. However, since Divergent Paths sends Banon and Terra to the Veldt, it didn't make sense to have Sabin in that role anymore. However, it DID make sense to have Cyan fill that. Cyan lost his son to poisoning, and would be excited at the prospect of re-uniting Gau with his father. So you have Cyan trying to teach Gau table manners, the proper way to speak (Thees and Thous), and the proper way to dress. It's in-character for Cyan, and heightens the effect of the scene. What follows naturally from that is Cyan being angry at Gau's father's rejection. He says that anyone should be proud to have Gau as a son. Then, Cyan realizes that rather than continuing to mourn his own son, he could simply be a father to Gau.

This has a gameplay hook too. Since Cyan's WoR recruitment scenario is now Doma Castle, I needed a place he could learn his SwdTechs. I also needed a place for Gau to gain the fight command. This tiny scene change allowed for both.


Projects:
Divergent Paths: The 3 Scenarios (Completed) - a redo of the 3 scenarios in the original game that gives equal time to each group. Meant to be a basis for future mods.
FFVI: Divergent Paths (In Progress) - a hack built off of the 3 scenarios that changes other events in the same, such as making Leo permanently recruitable, bringing Banon's story closure, and adding 1 more secret character.
  Find
Quote  
[-] The following 2 users say Thank You to PowerPanda for this post:
  • Robo Jesus (03-11-2020), Turbotastic (03-17-2020)

#3
Posts: 175
Threads: 11
Thanks Received: 78
Thanks Given: 18
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 13
Status
Well-Fed
For my part -- and this is, as far as I can tell, an unpopular opinion, and may be because of how much of my life I've spent in certain kinds of fandom spaces -- I don't need fanworks to adhere to the original to any degree. What I'm looking for are changes that are given thought. Like, I haven't talked a whole lot about the story and character changes in Tensei, partly because I'd like some of them to be discovered as people are playing, but I'm doing a lot. Relm is a decade older, the same age are Terra, while Celes is in her forties (as befits a frakking general in a frakking army, ugh). Shadow's backstory is completely different. Strago's not in the party, and Relm's OC mother is the resident dancing geomancer. I've seen modders with stories/hacks that do this kind of thing get accused of 'thinking they're better than the original', and that's not the impetus behind it -- certainly not for me, at least. It's just... FF6, a few worlds to the left. Not necessarily better, although I do hope to add some depth in places, but... different. "Hey, what if...?" It doesn't work without the original to compare it to.

But then, I've been reading AU fic for twenty-five years, so. YMMV. I'll give every idea a chance; the writer just needs to convince me. Sometimes that's easier than others, but that's about the thought put into the change, not what the change is, or how many there are.


Current Project: FF6: Tensei | Discord ID: TristanGrayse
  Find
Quote  
[-] The following 2 users say Thank You to GrayShadows for this post:
  • Robo Jesus (03-11-2020), Turbotastic (03-17-2020)

#4
Posts: 46
Threads: 7
Thanks Received: 3
Thanks Given: 11
Joined: Jun 2018
Reputation: 0
Status
None
I don't really care about twisting the plot or subverting expectations; my interests lie in fleshing out unknowns in the world in such a way that plot/world-building holes are filled, exploring things not fully developed, or trying out hypothetical what-if scenarios.

If I wanted to reveal a persons character, I would put them in a new set of circumstances. The bonus dungeon in FF1 is a good example of that, and could be used for characters who die in FF6. You could also explore what happens to Espers, Kefka, and other magical critters after the end.

If you are so inclined, a low power/magic game could be designed around caravan and merchant vessel guards who end up protecting towns from the Empire or Kefka, and then monsters in the world of ruin. Basically vanilla FF6 without significant Espers, and from a perspective that may not be so charitable to the Returners.

If I was going to make an FF6 mod, I would first decide what gameplay elements I want, then design my characters and plot around that.

The FF6 overworld is underwhelming and very linear. I prefer open worlds and leveled monsters (or level being largely irrelevant vs stats). I would either create multiple ways to get anywhere via mountain passes and caves and the like (not all of which are equally easy), or I would do away with the world map entirely and have both massive paths to get everywhere (linear and non-linear) and shortcuts like trains/ferries/canal-barges and teleportation via magic or chocobo caravans.

I'd add bonus dungeons at more points, for challenges and early rewards. Grandia is a good example. Add some Moogle-like throwaway temporary characters to accompany you in the dungeons.

I'd make the towns larger and add various events and quests, and consolidate the shops into general stores except in the biggest cities. Makes no sense that vector is a industrial powerhouse when it has like 6 buildings... unless I can come up with a plot that explains the apparent depopulation.

With all that in mind, I would design a bunch of characters based around some major event NOT happening that meets my criteria for gameplay and closing plot and design holes.

In this case, that means Gestahl dies of pneumonia or something as a child and the empire never forms. No Magitek, no magic at all except ancient magicite and bloodline casters. The Espers remain sealed in their cave - speaking of which, what exactly is in that cave; a pocket dimension, a gate to another world? Where do all the magic, Espers, and magicite go after the end of vanilla FF6?

Terra never left the Esper world, her martial skills would probably be limited without Imperial training, but her full magical abilities would be available from the start. Given her tutelage under natural casters, her magic skills would probably exceed all other mages in the game.

Where is Leo and what does he do? What do Biggs, Wedge, Cid, Kefka, and Celes do without an Empire and it's effects on them? What does Locke do when Rachel finally recovers her memory and reunites with him? What's Cyan up to and how does he join your party when he has a king to serve and a family to raise? Does the lack of these things affect Setzer, Daryl, and airship technology? What's Bannon up to? Who knows what Shadow would be doing, given that it's debatable if trains would exist and we don't know if he'd be a bandit with no Empire.

Edgar and Sabin would be somewhat changed with no Empire and lower tech, but I think Sabin had a thing for bodybuilding and martial arts so maybe not. Without advanced technology Edgar may be a dragoon rather than an Engineer.

Gau, Umaro, Mog, Gogo, Strago, and Relm wouldn't change at all.

How does the lack of magic, magitek, and an Empire affect Figaro Castle, South Figaro, and Narshe in terms both economic and technological? What powers existed prior to the Empire, and how do these rivalries play out? What happens without an Empire on the Southern continent to enforce Pax Arcana?

What you'd have is a freer*, wilder world, with no clear superpower and competing mercantile city-states. If you can feasibly triple or quadruple the size of towns, triple the number of pass-through dungeons, and add a bunch of bonus dungeons, then you create a world where all these economic, technological, and military rivalries play out.

You can use extra room created by removing the world of ruin, or you can add an event by one faction which triggers the disaster. After all, the Espers are still there and they are potentially powerful allies and sources of power in themselves. Should one faction seek to ally with them, it will throw everything else out of balance and lead to either another empire (military, mercantile, technological, or magical) or to a world war. A rival faction could attempt to assassinate Espers and inadvertently rediscover magicite, leading to a campaign to annihilate them and steal their power. Which leads to the floating continent and any of a number of things from there ... a floating fortress, a biological/chemical weapon deployment platform, a way to blackmail the entire world, or a path to godhood. If Kefka had remained within the center of the Goddess statues he could have absorbed all their magic, moving them wasn't necessary.

My main character could be a currently unknown character, a traveling warrior who pays the bills guarding caravans against bandits and protecting ships from pirates. That's what he seems to be to everyone he meets. Unbeknownst to them, he seeks out knowledge of hidden treasure and tries to manipulate people via his guard persona to get info and get him as close as he can safely get to treasure. The knowledge and skills needed to decipher ancient languages and understand historical contexts of dead civilizations suggests an academic background, which combined with the martial abilities needed to solo dungeons suggest he comes from money. Perhaps he is cast out from polite society. Maybe he just wants power and knowledge.

Whatever the case, he roams the world and meets all the major and minor characters, does quests great and small, and learns all there is to know about ancient secrets. Maybe he joins a faction to get access to their libraries or resources. He finally finds a few pieces of magicite and becomes a warlord in his own right. He manipulates another faction (one allied with Strago, probably) into breaching the Espers gate. His faction loses, and he (or someone else) calls for a negotiation banquet. Terra attends as an interpreter and diplomat. Peace is signed. The remaining diehard holdouts must be located deep within a distant dungeon though.

The parties go there, fight their way through anti-magic automatons from the War of the Magi, and confront the holdouts. Surprise, it's a trap: the Espers are killed, and an offensive captures the leaders of all the factions. Our mercenary then resumes command of his loyal troops and rewards them with magicite. He uses the few captured Espers still alive as sacrifices to teleport him and all his troops to the Espers cave, which upon his interference with the Goddess statues promptly takes off.

Cue the floating continent. Our guy positions himself as Emperor of the world and extracts money from everyone to keep his troops happy as he basks in magic.

End Part One.

Part two begins with the party meeting in prison several years later. They escape and find the world drearier.

The Emperor has elevated his troops into something more than human. You must go from town to town and defeat them, while collecting relics they use against you in battle which the Emperor had previously raided from dungeons. Oddly enough, it doesn't seem that the Emperor cares or even notices what you do, apparently there was a falling out between him and his troops.

You eventually free the entire world, but you still need to kill the Emperor. You figure out a way to get up there, either airship or teleportation. Whatever you do it's literally a boss rush from start to finish, interspersed with puzzles and lots of nasty random encounters.  The Emperor did some strange things to his troops.

You finally meet him and he is deep in meditation. The Goddesses attack you, and after they crumble to dust an extra set of eyes start to open on his face.

Thus begins the last, multi-stage battle.

Apparently the Emperor wants to create a new world, using all the magic he absorbed to cast a spell which will on completion kill all living things and unmake all matter, collapsing it in on itself; including the Emperor. The living things killed will act as a catalyst, freeing up souls he can use to complete the subsequent stages of the spell. Collapsing reality puts it all conveniently close enough together for him to bind all matter to himself, using the resevoir of souls he just reallocated. However his spell will bind his will, knowledge, and soul to every particle of matter. He will be everywhere, know everything, and shape the new universe which eventually arises as he sees fit as the one and only true God.

The kicker is he's been casting this spell for years, which is why he lost interest in the world. His earlier experiments on his troops were assays in the craft, attempts to merge his soul with various types of matter. This divided his focus and slowed down the casting by limiting his mental and magical resources.

By killing all his formerly human troops, you sped things up considerably. He should be done casting about 20 minutes from now.

Timer starts.

Cue last stages of multi-stage bossfight.

The characters at the conclusion of the battle do the reasonable thing and beg the remaining casters and Espers to remove all magic from the universe forever, anywhere just not here. They comply and that's the last we see of magic.

* The world overall would be freer, but that doesn't mean every city would have the same values. What's commendable in Narshe may be foolish in Kohlington. The cities of this world would not be monocultures without a superpower.

---

In FF7, I want to explore Gaea in the distant past, perhaps when the Chocobo Sage was a teenager and follow the late industrial revolution while seeing the planet before it was ravaged by Mako Reactors and the wildlife before it was mutated by Shinra and Hojo. Or maybe further back before Jenova hit the planet, then during and after that crisis.

FF5 could follow the original 4 heroes, or go further back to the splitting of the worlds (my memory is fuzzy on it) or the creation of the crystals.

I also like stories which let me indulge my favorite RPG design, the free roaming open world found in SaGa Frontier. A version of FF12 set early in Vayne's life could let you explore it all as a mercenary, who is maybe recruited by researchers (Dr. Cid et al) and has a treasure hunter tag along. Vayne himself could join incognito for a time, when he's not plotting or killing his brothers and rivals.
  Find
Quote  

#5
Posts: 653
Threads: 16
Thanks Received: 44
Thanks Given: 85
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 6
Status
None
A hack I'd like to see someone do is expand the story in the World of Ruin. While the wide-open world is nice, the story takes a nosedive and there's no overarcing plot anymore. I think it'd be cool to see a hack that adds a few more scripted events to give players more guidance and direction. Some ideas for that:

- When Humbaba uses Baba Breath to blow party members away, maybe they get blown off to the Veldt, the party has to go find them, recruit Gau, and rescue their party members in the Veldt cave. You would not have to do this immediately - your two lost party members would just be unusuable until lost, but with Terra and Gau joining, you'd still have a full party to do other things with.
- With the Veldt cave quest changed, Shadow could be found in Jidoor trying to save Relm.
- After doing a certain quest, Deathgaze attacks the airship and it crashes near South Figaro. The party has to go to Figaro to get parts to repair it and explores the underground channel that the castle moves through, during which players could find out about the Ancient Castle which branches off from that area.
- Strago relates to the party when rejoined that he kept reliving his past regrets, and one of them was what happened to Thamasa and he asks the party to take him there, which would nudge players to beginning the Hidon quest.

I'd also like to see the characters given specific dialogue for various appropriate circumstances. I assume this is a technical limitation it wasn't done before, have to code events to check for party members and give them unique dialogue, but hackers have the power to expand it:

- Give Sabin dialogue in the "Gerad" sequences
- Give Sabin and possibly Shadow and Gau dialogue in Cyan's nightmare. Locke could also have a small bit since he knows about the guilt of letting a loved one die
- Give Celes specific dialogue for seeing Terra at Mobliz
- Strago could have an expanded description of the Ancient Castle, since he knows more about the War of the Magi
- Terra could have a longer dialogue with Valigarmanda
- Cyan could say something on finding the Alexander Magicitie, like maybe it's a mythical guardian of Doma like in FF9
  Find
Quote  

#6
Posts: 220
Threads: 18
Thanks Received: 90
Thanks Given: 99
Joined: Dec 2018
Reputation: 14
Status
Moog
(03-09-2020, 11:51 PM)PowerPanda Wrote: I think one of the keys is that you have to love the original. People will be able to tell immediately if you don't. That's pretty easy though, as you wouldn't be doing a hack if you didn't love it.

Second key is that your changes need to fit the original as much as possible. Change only what is necessary. Don't add in jokes or 4th wall breaks. Try to make the story feel like it was meant to be that way all along.

Third, don't worry about surprises. People aren't looking to be shocked; they're looking for the little nods. They're looking to see characters interact with each other in new ways.
I think part of my trepidation is that if something is TOO much like the original, the reaction will be "Been there, done that" and the game will go unplayed.  I'm running into that with ReCast: I doubt anyone has played past the first guard fight (and thought "Oh, look at the tiny guards"), because I imagine there'd be something to talk about if they'd gotten to the end of the intro and seen that it was Maduin in the block of ice, not Valigarmanda.

Granted, my new project is novel simply for the fact that it's a medium shift from the source material (well, does an engine shift count as a medium shift?), but there are technical limitations introduced in the FF6 engine that will force me to greatly truncate the original story.  I'm having to prune, and while I've made carefully measured decisions on story changes that are necessity, I'm struggling with superpositions that need to be collapsed for mechanical reasons, but have equally valid story implications (the aforementioned "Rydia's age can't change, should she be a child or an adult the whole time?"

On the other hand, this conflict made me make sprites for child Edge, and he's pretty funny.



(03-11-2020, 04:47 PM)GrayShadows Wrote: For my part -- and this is, as far as I can tell, an unpopular opinion, and may be because of how much of my life I've spent in certain kinds of fandom spaces -- I don't need fanworks to adhere to the original to any degree. What I'm looking for are changes that are given thought. Like, I haven't talked a whole lot about the story and character changes in Tensei, partly because I'd like some of them to be discovered as people are playing, but I'm doing a lot. Relm is a decade older, the same age are Terra, while Celes is in her forties (as befits a frakking general in a frakking army, ugh). Shadow's backstory is completely different. Strago's not in the party, and Relm's OC mother is the resident dancing geomancer. I've seen modders with stories/hacks that do this kind of thing get accused of 'thinking they're better than the original', and that's not the impetus behind it -- certainly not for me, at least. It's just... FF6, a few worlds to the left. Not necessarily better, although I do hope to add some depth in places, but... different. "Hey, what if...?" It doesn't work without the original to compare it to.

But then, I've been reading AU fic for twenty-five years, so. YMMV. I'll give every idea a chance; the writer just needs to convince me. Sometimes that's easier than others, but that's about the thought put into the change, not what the change is, or how many there are.
This is comforting to hear.  I'm asking these sorts of questions because I'm trying to put thought towards the plot changes that are necessitated by mechanical limitations.  While some of the motivation is indeed fan-service (I was quite impressed with FedoraJoe's Golbez edition), I'm hitting hard limits with maps, character grinding opportunity, and the potential for variable party composition.  FF6 is designed for a large cast, but FF4 is written with the idea that you're constantly losing your allies (getting pruned to the final five Hit ).  If I spare everyone for character selection [a mechanics motive] the plot risks losing its punch... while I have ideas to justify survival I'm wary that the players will claim I'm copping out.  I guess I'll just have to write my *** off so the events and their outcomes are taken at face value, rather than measured against expectations from the original.  I get that's kinda the wrong end of the stick to take based on what you said (a hack's impact is directly drawn from comparison against the original), but I'm latching on to your first point [the change itself doesn't matter, the effort and thought does].

Your Tensei notes from '14 were an inspiration for what I've done already with FF6, even if I logged them in the back of my mind and forgot the specifics.  For instance, I remember reading a passionate argument you made about Relm's behavior being completely inappropriate for a ten-year-old, thought about it two months later and agreed, and so made her a teen in my hack to make her Strago sass-back less age-inaccurate (all without remembering WHERE I'd gotten that idea).  "STRAGO: Teenagers.  They're nuts, am I right?".
Sorry about that.  I try to attribute everybody for their contributions, but I haven't done a good job with scenario credits.  A lot of my ideas come as snippets inspired by those random screenshots on the main page: I see them, think of them weeks later without any context, and then incorporate some element from them into the hack.



(03-12-2020, 02:34 AM)MysticLord Wrote: I don't really care about twisting the plot or subverting expectations; my interests lie in fleshing out unknowns in the world in such a way that plot/world-building holes are filled, exploring things not fully developed, or trying out hypothetical what-if scenarios.

If I wanted to reveal a persons character, I would put them in a new set of circumstances. The bonus dungeon in FF1 is a good example of that, and could be used for characters who die in FF6. You could also explore what happens to Espers, Kefka, and other magical critters after the end.

If you are so inclined, a low power/magic game could be designed around caravan and merchant vessel guards who end up protecting towns from the Empire or Kefka, and then monsters in the world of ruin. Basically vanilla FF6 without significant Espers, and from a perspective that may not be so charitable to the Returners.

...

I also like stories which let me indulge my favorite RPG design, the free roaming open world found in SaGa Frontier. A version of FF12 set early in Vayne's life could let you explore it all as a mercenary, who is maybe recruited by researchers (Dr. Cid et al) and has a treasure hunter tag along. Vayne himself could join incognito for a time, when he's not plotting or killing his brothers and rivals.
Sounds like you're interested in low fantasy settings (low as in the opposite of high fantasy, where the explanation of everything is "It's MAGIC!").  I always try to ground magic to a fixed set of rules in my settings.
For instance, in my take of FF3, the Warring Triad stole their magic from the planet itself, and got into a violent argument over which way it should be used (Attack, Effect, or Healing).  Kefka mirrors this theft during the War of the Magitek, turning the Triad themselves into the victims.  Upon his death and with no more thieves vying for the power, the planet seizes the magic back (hence the espers being literally ripped apart, as they're made of magic).  It seemed a good justification for the World of Ruin suddenly turning green again during the credits, a concept that was poorly explored in the original game.

Open world design isn't as practical for me, though.  Using geography as additional event constriction helps simplify the scenario... in fact, for ease of construction I'm not even going to have the plot be party-specific: the only time the event code will check for members in-party will be with Palom and Porom to speak to pigs and frogs respectively.  One of my ongoing goals has been to fit the hack within the confines of the original game (so no expansions allowed), so I've really got to squeeze as much as I can into a tiny space.



(03-14-2020, 10:53 AM)DrakeyC Wrote: A hack I'd like to see someone do is expand the story in the World of Ruin. While the wide-open world is nice, the story takes a nosedive and there's no overarcing plot anymore. I think it'd be cool to see a hack that adds a few more scripted events to give players more guidance and direction. Some ideas for that:

- When Humbaba uses Baba Breath to blow party members away, maybe they get blown off to the Veldt, the party has to go find them, recruit Gau, and rescue their party members in the Veldt cave. You would not have to do this immediately - your two lost party members would just be unusuable until lost, but with Terra and Gau joining, you'd still have a full party to do other things with.
- With the Veldt cave quest changed, Shadow could be found in Jidoor trying to save Relm.
- After doing a certain quest, Deathgaze attacks the airship and it crashes near South Figaro. The party has to go to Figaro to get parts to repair it and explores the underground channel that the castle moves through, during which players could find out about the Ancient Castle which branches off from that area.
- Strago relates to the party when rejoined that he kept reliving his past regrets, and one of them was what happened to Thamasa and he asks the party to take him there, which would nudge players to beginning the Hidon quest.

I'd also like to see the characters given specific dialogue for various appropriate circumstances. I assume this is a technical limitation it wasn't done before, have to code events to check for party members and give them unique dialogue, but hackers have the power to expand it:

- Give Sabin dialogue in the "Gerad" sequences
- Give Sabin and possibly Shadow and Gau dialogue in Cyan's nightmare. Locke could also have a small bit since he knows about the guilt of letting a loved one die
- Give Celes specific dialogue for seeing Terra at Mobliz
- Strago could have an expanded description of the Ancient Castle, since he knows more about the War of the Magi
- Terra could have a longer dialogue with Valigarmanda
- Cyan could say something on finding the Alexander Magicitie, like maybe it's a mythical guardian of Doma like in FF9
I actually did some of this in ReCast, motivated by Catone's interest in expanding the FF6 scenario.  After Celes boards the raft, Mog takes you back to Scenario Selection and you're given the option to pick between Celes, Relm, or Terra.  Relm's scenario sends her from Maranda to Owzer's basement and then to Mt. Zozo, whereas Terra's goes from Mobliz through Doma to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum.  The routes merge with the original scenario in Kohlingen.

The thoughts about Deathgaze are interesting, but I don't think I'm going to change any other events in my vanillish hack.
This thread is more about other homage hacks, like an FF4, FF5, or FF1 hack.
  Find
Quote  



Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Theme by Madsiur2017Custom Graphics by JamesWhite