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Planing a return

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Yeah, I've been thinking of coming back and finishing my old work. I'll have to relearn everything then learn to read my notes again, but the last thing I was working on actually had some level of promise to turn I to a proper full game mod, which I'll discuss next. If I manage a return to nodding it won't be immediate and probably won't show any proper results for even longer but as with most massive mods, eventually on both. Gotta get several things straightened out first in order to dedicate enough time to half know what I'm doing again.

Now, the mod I'm thinking of (I may have mentioned all of this once upon a time) is not really a "new" game or story, but a massive expansion of what is FF6. More detail, more side quest, more pixels, more things that kill you, more headaches, more everything. 

The last thing I was working on was rewriting the event code. ALL the event code. I completed the absolute nessisery code and sprite sheets needed for event code fluffing and had started going through the first visit to Narsh making the magitech fodder know as Narsh Guards more animated using their expanded sprite sheets to better display their emotional distress and general soiling of underpants they are experiencing just before receiving a magitech missle suppository then being burned alive. Now that I think about it, need to edit in the line "should have work the Brown pants today" and possibly get an artist to make a special pose for the guards to really express how bad their situation is. 

But yes, that is the goal, well at least that is the FF6 I would like to play. I've really had the urge to play it through lately and I want to play it like that anyway. Other than a handful of text changes and an expanded use of the full sprite sheets, I want the core game to truly be FF6, just with extra hot fudge and a cherry or 6 on top. Probably rewrite and update my first little mod with recruiting staff and such for the airship (update as in code it properly rather than the jumble of work arounds and amature coding the original was.) Also need to finish that Narsh battlefield expansion I started on too after I reread that old post and remember what the plan was. (Yes, I'm long winded with this stuff not only for conversation but so I can read and remember what I was doing much later.)

So I'd like to hear some ideas for expansion like that, I'll probably stick to the plan of rewriting the entire event code but some notes and ideas on major events that would be vastly improved by using expanded NPC sprite sheets as well as having virtually unlimited space for more code. (I seem to remember expanding the ROM size well beyond normal FF6 standards.) Also need ideas and script writing for completely new (and possible) side quest. 

Also maybe talking and creating hype will make me hurry up and get back into it faster.

Thanks for reading my rambling, have nice day.


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#2
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Yikes, that sounds like a project you'll be working on for 15 years. Remember that the event coders did this, and only this, as their full-time job, for around a year.


Projects:
Divergent Paths: The 3 Scenarios (Completed) - a redo of the 3 scenarios in the original game that gives equal time to each group. Meant to be a basis for future mods.
FFVI: Divergent Paths (In Progress) - a hack built off of the 3 scenarios that changes other events in the same, such as making Leo permanently recruitable, bringing Banon's story closure, and adding 1 more secret character.
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Well, if you're looking for ideas on scenarios for expansion, I'd first say start with PowerPanda's work. 3 Scenarios does a wonderful job balancing the party split, by giving Terra more to do before the meeting of Narshe [half of Sabin's scenario] and ensuring each group introduces only one new character. The story flows much more smoothly with those changes.

Other places that could benefit from expansion are the Zozo conversation with Ramuh (which could really benefit from being different for EVERY character that's there to contribute, rather than a bunch of rephrased lines with different speaker attribution). Locke being there could send the conversation down the myths of the War of the Magi (his grandmother's stories). Celes could turn it to talks about esper augmentation. Edgar to Vector politics and the fate of his parents. So on and so forth.

Likewise, the flashback with Maduin could benefit from a greatly expanded dialogue and event script. It could even extend into another scenario about Terra's childhood within the Magitek Research facility (I thought it was odd that she remembered being a baby, but not the rest of her life; my own hack addresses this in dialogue).

As far as side quests... there's a lot you can do there too. Umaro's recruitment was a bit of an afterthought and could benefit from a side quest... perhaps a scavenger hunt in the ruins of Narshe to gather components so he can finish carving his idol. Sabin running into his master Duncan felt pretty poorly executed: finding Duncan could have involved tracking Vargas across the World of Ruin (and fighting him several times). Edgar doesn't get a power up in the World of Ruin or have plot beyond his re-recruitment: maybe you could restrict the Debilitator and have him invent it by following a series of Figaro scholar notes to the library in the Ancient Castle beneath it (tying it to the Odin esper). Relm also doesn't have a significant quest after recruitment; the fake mustache is just shoved in a chest somewhere.
You could move Locke's World of Ruin recruitment to Narshe and make the Phoenix Cave his side quest... put the Thief's Knife and the relic that turns Steal into Capture in there. Mog and Gau are also lacking significant power-ups in the World of Ruin (as is Terra, though she does get a major one on recruitment...) which could be tied to side quests.

Hopefully these are helpful ideas. Basically, look at which characters got neglected in the second half of the game and expand on them.


EDIT: I had an idea for Mog. You could track how many dances he's learned (and tie at least one of them to a World of Ruin Zone, possibly the Water Rondo), and then have him talk to Draco at the Opera House. If he's learned all eight, Draco teaches Mog some new performance moves and gives him a "Stage Actor's Guild" card... a relic that when equipped keeps the 'Dance' status from being set and prevents 'Stumble'. Thus, Mog could choose a new dance each turn, or do something else after performing a dance move.
As for Relm... well, World of Ruin Albrook is pretty unused. Maybe there could be an event in the tavern there where Relm agrees to boost business by drawing caricatures, and you have to run around town convincing people to go get their portrait drawn. Once you get enough patrons, the bartender could give you the Fake Mustache.
Gau's already got the task to impress his father, but that can be expanded with some kind of fetch-quest. Basically a bunch of short airship trips to various stores to trigger scenes like the clothes shopping and the dining etiquette. At the end of it all, Gau could get a relic that keeps the Rage flag from being set (really powerful, actually, because then you can stack monster flags on him).

OH! One more thing! If you manage to save Cid, he tells Celes to bring Locke to meet him. Yet, if you do in the vanilla game, nothing happens! That scene could use an overhaul.
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  • Robo Jesus (08-13-2019)

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Yep, exactly the kinda ideas I'm looking for. A couple of those I've already thought about needing filling out or actually using at all (like Cid, I mean wth? That much of a pain and chance to save him then... Nothing). I didn't think of expanding the short events though, but your right. Stuff like Gau and Sabin's "cut scene" could really use more interaction other than watch a cut scene, chuckle a tad and continue.

And yeah, not an extremely short task by any means, but once I relearn some coding, not really that long of a task. Rewrote the first Narsh invasion (guards attacking the magi-tek armor in a night. Sure its not that long but point is once I start on an event I generally go pretty quick. The point isn't to be quick though, it to be complete. Or at least rediculously longer.

Thanks for the ideas though. Hopefully I'll be able to grind it all out within a resonable time frame.

Edit: I just realized, stretching out events already in the game shouldn't really use that much extra resources. Verses making entirely new saved bits. I know the one I did before I had to reset and repurpose a bunch of WoB bits in order to use them all for one big quest. So yeah! Fleshing out events that already exist in an under utilized form, is absolutely something that needs to happen.


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I'd like to see a second (maybe a third? ) scenerio split. The whens are easy, but the whats and hows are killers.


I have no computer ATM, and no time or free money either, so I'm extremely limited. Lurking is about the extent of my ability. 
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(08-27-2019, 11:19 AM)Imzogelmo Wrote: I'd like to see a second (maybe a third? ) scenerio split. The whens are easy, but the whats and hows are killers.

Hmm... I can think of two good spots that could be rewritten for splits.

The first is the Thamasa campaign.
If they meet Strago at the dock when they make land, they can fork into two parties with Leo and Celes (and Shadow) going into Thamasa (culminating in the burning building with Relm), while Locke and Terra (and Strago) get chased by Ultros in the mountains.  It pushes back Relm's introduction as a playable character (only becoming available right before the floating continent) but adds more non-inn development for Shadow.
The third branch could be Edgar and company back at Vector... an enemy gauntlet as they make their escape (with fewer enemies the nicer you are to the tea girl).
The only problem there is Mog... either Mog needs to become a mandatory character so that he and Cyan can have some adventures in a fourth scenario, or you'll need to be able to select party members in Edgar's branch.

The second is the World of Ruin post-Lonely isle.
Again, you have the Celes branch which plays like Vanilla through Figaro (Tzen mandatory).
For option two, you have a Locke branch starting in Maranda (with the wounded carrier pigeon), followed by a stopover in Jidoor (w/Starlet, meet up with Relm), then leading through Zozo (to get Cyan) and finally to Kohlingen.
Lastly, option three would be a Terra branch, covering the Mobliz events [w/destroyed Mobliz connecting to Cave on the Veldt and Gau], a run-in with the Zone Eater, and then a half-esper flight to Kohlingen (or a devil's road situation where the Zone Eater's 'exit' is the Coliseum... hmm, so THAT's where he gets the monsters!).
All three branches wrap up with a reunion with Setzer to go dig up the Falcon.
Of course, that kinda eats up most of the premises for side quests, so maybe that's not such a great idea.
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(08-28-2019, 04:10 PM)C-Dude Wrote:
(08-27-2019, 11:19 AM)Imzogelmo Wrote: I'd like to see a second (maybe a third? ) scenerio split. The whens are easy, but the whats and hows are killers.

Hmm... I can think of two good spots that could be rewritten for splits.

The first is the Thamasa campaign.
If they meet Strago at the dock when they make land, they can fork into two parties with Leo and Celes (and Shadow) going into Thamasa (culminating in the burning building with Relm), while Locke and Terra (and Strago) get chased by Ultros in the mountains.  It pushes back Relm's introduction as a playable character (only becoming available right before the floating continent) but adds more non-inn development for Shadow.
The third branch could be Edgar and company back at Vector... an enemy gauntlet as they make their escape (with fewer enemies the nicer you are to the tea girl).
The only problem there is Mog... either Mog needs to become a mandatory character so that he and Cyan can have some adventures in a fourth scenario, or you'll need to be able to select party members in Edgar's branch.

The second is the World of Ruin post-Lonely isle.
Again, you have the Celes branch which plays like Vanilla through Figaro (Tzen mandatory).
For option two, you have a Locke branch starting in Maranda (with the wounded carrier pigeon), followed by a stopover in Jidoor (w/Starlet, meet up with Relm), then leading through Zozo (to get Cyan) and finally to Kohlingen.
Lastly, option three would be a Terra branch, covering the Mobliz events [w/destroyed Mobliz connecting to Cave on the Veldt and Gau], a run-in with the Zone Eater, and then a half-esper flight to Kohlingen (or a devil's road situation where the Zone Eater's 'exit' is the Coliseum... hmm, so THAT's where he gets the monsters!).
All three branches wrap up with a reunion with Setzer to go dig up the Falcon.
Of course, that kinda eats up most of the premises for side quests, so maybe that's not such a great idea.

For the events at Thamasa, you would need to do some re-routing. The parts to keep in mind are:
1. Relm and Strago need to be in Thamasa in order for the events of that town to play out correctly. Taking either of them out will have drastic effects on the storytelling.
2. Strago also needs to be in the Esper's Cave to explain the 3 Statues. You could potentially get away with having Leo or Celes explain them, but not Locke or Terra.
3. The Ultros fight is set to only end with Relm sketching Ultros, so you will have to update that script and drop the HP if Relm isn't there. You would also need to explain why other party members have such a visceral response to Relm offering to paint Sabin's portrait.
3. Terra needs to be in the Esper's Cave for the scene with Yura to work.
4. From a gameplay perspective, the Thamasa events are meant to bring Terra up to speed on her skills, and also allow you to get skills started for Strago and Relm. The inclusion of Locke was necessary from a story standpoint, but it doesn't work that well for gameplay since he's also required for the Vector run. In Divergent Paths, I've switched out Locke for Leo.

I love the idea of an Edgar scenario though. That would include Edgar, Sabin, and Cyan for sure. From a gameplay perspective, you'd probably want to include Setzer, as he needs some time to build up his skills. However, he's also the easiest absence to explain, as he and Cid are fixing up the Blackjack. I would NOT recommend using Gau or Mog for this, as every event that includes them would have to include a check for if they're not there. That was extremely difficult for me when I added Shadow to Locke's scenario in Divergent Paths. It could be handwaved though with a single scene, where Edgar explains he's going undercover, and Gau and Mog would stand out too much.

For the World of Ruin, you either need to make ALL of the character recruitment part of branching scenarios, or you need to make NONE of them part of scenarios. However, if you could figure out a way to make Terra mandatory, that would fix the issue where she just shows up in the ending cutscene if you don't already have her.


Projects:
Divergent Paths: The 3 Scenarios (Completed) - a redo of the 3 scenarios in the original game that gives equal time to each group. Meant to be a basis for future mods.
FFVI: Divergent Paths (In Progress) - a hack built off of the 3 scenarios that changes other events in the same, such as making Leo permanently recruitable, bringing Banon's story closure, and adding 1 more secret character.
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  • C-Dude (08-29-2019)

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(08-29-2019, 10:20 AM)PowerPanda Wrote: For the World of Ruin, you either need to make ALL of the character recruitment part of branching scenarios, or you need to make NONE of them part of scenarios. However, if you could figure out a way to make Terra mandatory, that would fix the issue where she just shows up in the ending cutscene if you don't already have her.
That's one of the biggest advantages of writing in a branch there: you can make more characters mandatory for recruitment and so you have more guaranteed characters available for use during the ending (the escape from Kefka's Tower).  It saves you from having to use Edgar, Celes, and Setzer in every scene.
You could still leave some characters optional, though, I don't think it's an all-or-nothing situation.  None of the branches go to Narshe, so Mog and Umaro can remain secret characters.  Whether or not Zone Eater gets used, Gogo could remain secret too.  Strago's a fanatic unless you fly to meet him; there's no reason to force him into a scenario split.  And lastly, Shadow would need to be recruited outside the branches anyway, to handle the possibility he died on the Floating Continent.

I'm picturing
(1) Locke -> Jidoor (Get Relm, get Rust Rid ["Paint Thinner"]) -> Zozo (Get Cyan/Leo [depending on which plot we're using, Vanilla or Divergent]) -> Maranda again (Follow pigeon) -> Kohlingen (Rumors of a gambler)
(2) Celes -> Tzen (Get Sabin, set flag for Nikeah tavern event) -> Nikeah (Get Edgar, save Figaro) -> Kohlingen
(3) Terra -> Veldt (Via underground caves, get Gau in Cave on the Veldt) -> Hunt Zone Eater (Get Gogo) -> Coliseum (back exit of Zone Eater) -> Kohlingen

Such would require breaking Mobliz off from the Serpent's Trench, which isn't a huge deal.  It'd also involve setting an event flag to prevent the Zone Eater from swallowing you after the scenario, or to move the Airship to the Veldt or to the Coliseum based on which exit the player takes.  The biggest problem is reworking Phunbaba's scenes; Terra would need to regain her ability to fight on her own before setting out to find her friends.

(08-29-2019, 10:20 AM)PowerPanda Wrote: For the events at Thamasa, you would need to do some re-routing. The parts to keep in mind are:
1. Relm and Strago need to be in Thamasa in order for the events of that town to play out correctly. Taking either of them out will have drastic effects on the storytelling.
2. Strago also needs to be in the Esper's Cave to explain the 3 Statues. You could potentially get away with having Leo or Celes explain them, but not Locke or Terra.
3. The Ultros fight is set to only end with Relm sketching Ultros, so you will have to update that script and drop the HP if Relm isn't there. You would also need to explain why other party members have such a visceral response to Relm offering to paint Sabin's portrait.
3. Terra needs to be in the Esper's Cave for the scene with Yura to work.
4. From a gameplay perspective, the Thamasa events are meant to bring Terra up to speed on her skills, and also allow you to get skills started for Strago and Relm. The inclusion of Locke was necessary from a story standpoint, but it doesn't work that well for gameplay since he's also required for the Vector run. In Divergent Paths, I've switched out Locke for Leo.
Locke for Leo sounds like a good trade for that spot.  I was thinking it was a good time for a split because the imperial team breaks ranks before you even check into town, and then Shadow joins them after the fire.  I was trying to come up with a situation where Clyde could save his daughter without being in both scenarios, but maybe he _should_ be in both.
Perhaps in the spirit of cooperation, Locke and Celes go to Thamasa (with Celes giving him the cold shoulder until the burning house) while Terra and Leo go to the mountain.  But that still leaves Relm unplayable until Floating Continent and it raises the issue of the sketch tutorial...

...Unless...
Unless she faces off against Kefka during the Thamasa raid and fends him off with a portrait.  Yeah, her threat to Sabin needs to be removed but it certainly gives her an extra point in awesome, standing up to the madman.  That works better with your Leo setup than with the Vanilla game, though.
That also lets Ultros serve as a real boss for the Espers branch (and a threatening one at that, given his elemental reactions in that fight).

(08-29-2019, 10:20 AM)PowerPanda Wrote: I love the idea of an Edgar scenario though. That would include Edgar, Sabin, and Cyan for sure. From a gameplay perspective, you'd probably want to include Setzer, as he needs some time to build up his skills. However, he's also the easiest absence to explain, as he and Cid are fixing up the Blackjack. I would NOT recommend using Gau or Mog for this, as every event that includes them would have to include a check for if they're not there. That was extremely difficult for me when I added Shadow to Locke's scenario in Divergent Paths. It could be handwaved though with a single scene, where Edgar explains he's going undercover, and Gau and Mog would stand out too much.
Poor Mog.  Confused Pummel
He was the game's mascot, and he doesn't get any screen time because he's optional.  I wonder why he didn't join up during the Narshe Esper defense... that fight was an actor short anyway (lazy Banon!).

Anyway, it's fun to theory-craft this stuff, even if it is wildly infeasible.
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So here's how the routing for Divergent Paths works, in case you want to use the finished product.

Thamasa:
Celes and Locke's reunion takes place aboard the ship during Leo's speech. Banon is also present due to some re-scripting in Vector. He needs to be there so that he can confront Kefka later on. Here's the dialogue.

==================
LEO: We're almost at Crescent Island. When we disembark, we'll split into two groups, each with a General and a Returner.
CELES will take LOCKE and Banon. TERRA, by your leave, SHADOW and I will accompany you.

LOCKE: No way! I promised I would protect TERRA!

TERRA: It's okay, LOCKE. I'll be fine. I think we can trust him.
Besides_ I'm not the one who needs you right now_

CELES: Um, I_

LEO: What General CELES means to say is that she returned to the Empire to help Cid dismantle the Magitek program.
LEO: This mission, this peace_ It's all thanks to her.

LOCKE: Celes_

(Long pause as Locke and Celes walk toward each other)

LEO: Right. SHADOW, Let's be off!

(Leo, Shadow, and Terra walk off the right side of the screen. Terra pauses to look back at Locke and give him a head nod)
==================

From here on out, Leo takes Locke's place for all of the events on Crescent Island, including protecting Terra during the initial confrontation with Yura and the Espers. I re-purposed the Runic introduction from the TunnelArmor to the Flame Eater to establish both Leo's and Strago's gameplay. Leo can protect everyone from the flames by absorbing them with Runic. Strago's Lores bypass the Runic blade. Terra can heal them, as long as Runic isn't set. (IMO, it actually becomes a really fun battle.)

When Kefka attacks the village, the Espers use their last ounce of power to create the Illumina (it was established with both the Atma Weapon and the Ragnarok that this is possible as an alternative for Magicite). Banon, upon taking the sword, becomes super strong for his final battle before Kefka kills him. As a side-note in the WoR the Illumina is gained from Banon's grave by having a character equipped with the Paladin Shield "talk to" the grave stone.

World of Ruin:
Leo is recruited in Zozo. He's writing letters on behalf of all of his soldiers who died when Kefka destroyed the world. Cyan is recruited in Doma with the Dream Stooges quest. Cyan's SwdTechs are learned by having Cyan (not Sabin) take Gau to meet his father. It just worked so much better to have CYAN try to teach Gau manners.


Projects:
Divergent Paths: The 3 Scenarios (Completed) - a redo of the 3 scenarios in the original game that gives equal time to each group. Meant to be a basis for future mods.
FFVI: Divergent Paths (In Progress) - a hack built off of the 3 scenarios that changes other events in the same, such as making Leo permanently recruitable, bringing Banon's story closure, and adding 1 more secret character.
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I have to say, I like the stories, never was one much for being forced to "choose your path", at least very often, from a player perspective though (really kills several Fire Emblems for me).

That being said, the party split at the boat really is some missed potential, well missed story. I think I can make an exception there. Really hated how the cool kids took off on there own with no real explanation on what happened during their trip.

Don't mind me though, keep going. I'm reading and marking for later re-reading, not sure if I've said it before but creative is not in my skill set. So yes, I really want the ideas and stories... Yes... Feed me...

When the time does eventually come, credit where credit is due, absolutely. No matter how far fetched, alot is possible if you don't get brain damage from table+head to many times before said things are forced to work through sheer force and voodoo magic. Just have to know what needs to be drove in with a large hammer, and what requires a larger hammer.


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