Poll: What should we do?
This poll is closed.
Try the chat for a period of time then decide 87.50% 7 87.50%
Delete the chat and stick to the shoutbox 0% 0 0%
I don't care I don't chat/shout 12.50% 1 12.50%
Total 8 vote(s) 100%
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The future of the shoutbox

#11
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(04-09-2016, 11:05 PM)Tenkarider Wrote: Yeah, the point is i don't even want to open/close it as separate window, no matter how much fast the login/logout is it... when i close all stuff and i go back to hack/study/anything else that requires my concentration, having a window that tells me immediately that there's a new post/shout would hinder my activity.

How about turning off notifications on Discord and changing your algorithm to study / log in to the forum / check chat / read forum posts / post / read pms / peek at the chat / play guitar / study?

I respect your position of giving the chat a chance, but being an "indirect" shoutbox user, e.g. a person that don't really like to chat, you could probably live without the chat and the shoutbox. However for a person liking to chat, the shoutbox is the Lada of chat engines while Discord is the Ferrari. You can't convince a person that is not concerned about reliability, free software concept, monitoring and security to choose the Linux OS over Windows while it's a fact that Linux does better in those regards.

(04-09-2016, 11:05 PM)Tenkarider Wrote: pro and cons heavily depends on the personal point of view of each person.

Aside of the second window argument that is the main point of those who prefer the shoutbox and probably the only subjective pro/con, I don't see how much it can weight against the all the elements that are making the chat superior. There are facts that you can't label as subjective.



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#12
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well, i know discord is better but the only thing i can care about, according to the way i use it, is if i can see it in the same screen or if i need of a second window.
Again, i'm looking forward to see that API being released.


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#13
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(04-10-2016, 06:05 AM)Tenkarider Wrote: Again, i'm looking forward to see that API being released.

The official API has not been released but there's already a bunch of libraries available. For comparison, check this sheet. I have yet to look into this but there might be already a way to make a shoutbox. I'll get serious on the project in beginning of May after exams. DiscordPHP (PHP) or Discordie (Javascript) seems like good API candidates for us.

We could maybe have the #general channel as a shoutbox and others only on the App or even a channel selection on the header of the shoutbox. Credentials are my biggest question, whether I can integrate them in the site cookies or not.



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#14
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Just felt the need to point out something you seem to be missing. The main reason the shoutbox is used/is popular at all, is because it is simple, stupid, and lazy. While you seem to realize this, you also seem to file them all as reasons to get rid of it, instead of reasons it gets used. As Tenka said, its already there and loaded, checked while passing through. And, so simple to toss in a comment without ever actually commiting yourself to the conversation. Wether it stays or goes, please keep in mind the all the features in the world can't always replace simplicity.

Also, while I'm here I must say, what's with the on going trend of giving people less reasons to ever open the forum page at all? Honestly, it's more of a rhetorical question than anything, I find myself not really concerned regardless, but first the seperate wiki, then the seperate chat... is that the intended goal or just coincidence? Again, its rhetorical. I actually did like it here once, would like to know its still going rather than being upgraded into oblivion.


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#15
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(04-10-2016, 11:01 PM)Catone Wrote: The main reason the shoutbox is used/is popular at all, is because it is simple, stupid, and lazy. While you seem to realize this, you also seem to file them all as reasons to get rid of it, instead of reasons it gets used. As Tenka said, its already there and loaded, checked while passing through. And, so simple to toss in a comment without ever actually commiting yourself to the conversation. Wether it stays or goes, please keep in mind the all the features in the world can't always replace simplicity.

The first post (and poll) states we would do a trial period with the chat. If a majority want the shoutbox back and/or if the chat is less popular than the shoutbox, I'll gladly bring it back and close the chat. I actually want to leave the final decision to the community rather than deciding alone, hence the reason of this thread the poll (which result is fairly eloquent). I hope your understand my point of considering having both the chat and the shoutbox being useless (regardless of which one stay) because one I consider being inferior put its shadow on the other because it's what people are used to. If I was the one deciding the shoutbox would have been scrapped since two weeks and we'd already be in chat trial. I don't see anything wrong with pushing and advocating something I consider a better for the forum. Tenka and others are entitled to their opinion and I respect them, while having the right to find a statement inaccurate and argument back.

(04-10-2016, 11:01 PM)Catone Wrote: Also, while I'm here I must say, what's with the on going trend of giving people less reasons to ever open the forum page at all? Honestly, it's more of a rhetorical question than anything, I find myself not really concerned regardless, but first the seperate wiki, then the seperate chat... is that the intended goal or just coincidence? Again, its rhetorical. I actually did like it here once, would like to know its still going rather than being upgraded into oblivion.

More a useless question than a rethorical one. Since I don't have time to code a complete wiki plugin for myBB, I had to go for a third party solution. I also not have the time to code a forum plugin for a wiki engine, hence the reason why myBB is a separated entity of Dokuwiki. The wiki is considered a good thing by everyone except you maybe (I'm trying to find the positivity in your statement but can't find any). It's probably going to surpass the RHDN FF6 wiki entry eventually (it already does on some sections thanks to a few committed members). I'd like to point out that the RHDN and Slick wikis are also separated from their respective forums and I'm sure their admin did not had in mind to upgrade their site into oblivion when they created their wiki.

If you'd actually consider everything that I say instead of only what suits you, you'd have noticed I'm saying in my last post I'm gonna try coding a Discord shoutbox in two weeks. Again that is not something I consider to "upgrade [the forum] into oblivion". Whether you like it or not here is the last of my concern when I consider that the general appreciation is fairly good. I though I'd not read useless interventions but the second part of your post is the first one to my knowledge since your post in the alternate $C2 disassembly thread. Congratz!



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(04-09-2016, 09:24 PM)Gi Nattak Wrote: If there was a choice of leaving the Shoutbox and having a Chat link like it currently is, I'd vote for that. I realize the Dischord chat is much better in every way but I'm sure some folks would rather just do a shout for somethings, instead of signing into and opening another window for a live-chat. So just to have both options available, I'd say why not. I do like reading and doing a shout sometimes more than a live chat. I would however love if we could have the Discord window/chat take the place of the Shoutbox there on the main page, but since this is not a possibility...

+1

(04-10-2016, 11:01 PM)Catone Wrote: Just felt the need to point out something you seem to be missing. The main reason the shoutbox is used/is popular at all, is because it is simple, stupid, and lazy. While you seem to realize this, you also seem to file them all as reasons to get rid of it, instead of reasons it gets used. As Tenka said, its already there and loaded, checked while passing through. And, so simple to toss in a comment without ever actually commiting yourself to the conversation. Wether it stays or goes, please keep in mind the all the features in the world can't always replace simplicity.

Also, while I'm here I must say, what's with the on going trend of giving people less reasons to ever open the forum page at all? Honestly, it's more of a rhetorical question than anything, I find myself not really concerned regardless, but first the seperate wiki, then the seperate chat... is that the intended goal or just coincidence? Again, its rhetorical. I actually did like it here once, would like to know its still going rather than being upgraded into oblivion.

+1

this adds another app with username and pw if I wanted to use my phone to look at the site.  Sad
I would rather have the option of both.
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#17
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Update 7:00am:

So basically this thread and my investment on the forum in the last 6 month made me realize a thing or two.

I honestly don't have time to invest in improvements that get not often support by other admins in time, committment and communication backing up. While I can take suggestions and constructive critics, I have the impression I'm the only one to propose stuff and then manage the idea from scratch to completion as well as all the feedbacks, negative or not and really lame & shitty or constructive.

I'm not pro status quo and I don't think because a thing has been functional for a time it doesn't need to be replaced by a better option that can differs a bit when the said option is available.

Finally I don't have the time to code editors, hack, improve the forum, the wiki, the YT channel and do maintenance/backups on the site, so I decide I will center my activities on the YT Channel and wiki and stop/forget any forum improvement project and maintenance task for a long time.

I'll focus on doing stuff I enjoy the most like people do instead of stuff I consider that should be done in order to keep a continuous improvement mentality which some elements sometime would go against the definition of improvement (and the mood of the moment) of a few. FYI I spent 6 to 20 hours a week trying to make the forum better in the last 6 month so I can semi-retire/lay back with no shame and even pride.

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