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Plot Twists in Remasters

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(03-09-2020, 11:51 PM)PowerPanda Wrote: I think one of the keys is that you have to love the original. People will be able to tell immediately if you don't. That's pretty easy though, as you wouldn't be doing a hack if you didn't love it.

Second key is that your changes need to fit the original as much as possible. Change only what is necessary. Don't add in jokes or 4th wall breaks. Try to make the story feel like it was meant to be that way all along.

Third, don't worry about surprises. People aren't looking to be shocked; they're looking for the little nods. They're looking to see characters interact with each other in new ways.
I think part of my trepidation is that if something is TOO much like the original, the reaction will be "Been there, done that" and the game will go unplayed.  I'm running into that with ReCast: I doubt anyone has played past the first guard fight (and thought "Oh, look at the tiny guards"), because I imagine there'd be something to talk about if they'd gotten to the end of the intro and seen that it was Maduin in the block of ice, not Valigarmanda.

Granted, my new project is novel simply for the fact that it's a medium shift from the source material (well, does an engine shift count as a medium shift?), but there are technical limitations introduced in the FF6 engine that will force me to greatly truncate the original story.  I'm having to prune, and while I've made carefully measured decisions on story changes that are necessity, I'm struggling with superpositions that need to be collapsed for mechanical reasons, but have equally valid story implications (the aforementioned "Rydia's age can't change, should she be a child or an adult the whole time?"

On the other hand, this conflict made me make sprites for child Edge, and he's pretty funny.



(03-11-2020, 04:47 PM)GrayShadows Wrote: For my part -- and this is, as far as I can tell, an unpopular opinion, and may be because of how much of my life I've spent in certain kinds of fandom spaces -- I don't need fanworks to adhere to the original to any degree. What I'm looking for are changes that are given thought. Like, I haven't talked a whole lot about the story and character changes in Tensei, partly because I'd like some of them to be discovered as people are playing, but I'm doing a lot. Relm is a decade older, the same age are Terra, while Celes is in her forties (as befits a frakking general in a frakking army, ugh). Shadow's backstory is completely different. Strago's not in the party, and Relm's OC mother is the resident dancing geomancer. I've seen modders with stories/hacks that do this kind of thing get accused of 'thinking they're better than the original', and that's not the impetus behind it -- certainly not for me, at least. It's just... FF6, a few worlds to the left. Not necessarily better, although I do hope to add some depth in places, but... different. "Hey, what if...?" It doesn't work without the original to compare it to.

But then, I've been reading AU fic for twenty-five years, so. YMMV. I'll give every idea a chance; the writer just needs to convince me. Sometimes that's easier than others, but that's about the thought put into the change, not what the change is, or how many there are.
This is comforting to hear.  I'm asking these sorts of questions because I'm trying to put thought towards the plot changes that are necessitated by mechanical limitations.  While some of the motivation is indeed fan-service (I was quite impressed with FedoraJoe's Golbez edition), I'm hitting hard limits with maps, character grinding opportunity, and the potential for variable party composition.  FF6 is designed for a large cast, but FF4 is written with the idea that you're constantly losing your allies (getting pruned to the final five Hit ).  If I spare everyone for character selection [a mechanics motive] the plot risks losing its punch... while I have ideas to justify survival I'm wary that the players will claim I'm copping out.  I guess I'll just have to write my *** off so the events and their outcomes are taken at face value, rather than measured against expectations from the original.  I get that's kinda the wrong end of the stick to take based on what you said (a hack's impact is directly drawn from comparison against the original), but I'm latching on to your first point [the change itself doesn't matter, the effort and thought does].

Your Tensei notes from '14 were an inspiration for what I've done already with FF6, even if I logged them in the back of my mind and forgot the specifics.  For instance, I remember reading a passionate argument you made about Relm's behavior being completely inappropriate for a ten-year-old, thought about it two months later and agreed, and so made her a teen in my hack to make her Strago sass-back less age-inaccurate (all without remembering WHERE I'd gotten that idea).  "STRAGO: Teenagers.  They're nuts, am I right?".
Sorry about that.  I try to attribute everybody for their contributions, but I haven't done a good job with scenario credits.  A lot of my ideas come as snippets inspired by those random screenshots on the main page: I see them, think of them weeks later without any context, and then incorporate some element from them into the hack.



(03-12-2020, 02:34 AM)MysticLord Wrote: I don't really care about twisting the plot or subverting expectations; my interests lie in fleshing out unknowns in the world in such a way that plot/world-building holes are filled, exploring things not fully developed, or trying out hypothetical what-if scenarios.

If I wanted to reveal a persons character, I would put them in a new set of circumstances. The bonus dungeon in FF1 is a good example of that, and could be used for characters who die in FF6. You could also explore what happens to Espers, Kefka, and other magical critters after the end.

If you are so inclined, a low power/magic game could be designed around caravan and merchant vessel guards who end up protecting towns from the Empire or Kefka, and then monsters in the world of ruin. Basically vanilla FF6 without significant Espers, and from a perspective that may not be so charitable to the Returners.

...

I also like stories which let me indulge my favorite RPG design, the free roaming open world found in SaGa Frontier. A version of FF12 set early in Vayne's life could let you explore it all as a mercenary, who is maybe recruited by researchers (Dr. Cid et al) and has a treasure hunter tag along. Vayne himself could join incognito for a time, when he's not plotting or killing his brothers and rivals.
Sounds like you're interested in low fantasy settings (low as in the opposite of high fantasy, where the explanation of everything is "It's MAGIC!").  I always try to ground magic to a fixed set of rules in my settings.
For instance, in my take of FF3, the Warring Triad stole their magic from the planet itself, and got into a violent argument over which way it should be used (Attack, Effect, or Healing).  Kefka mirrors this theft during the War of the Magitek, turning the Triad themselves into the victims.  Upon his death and with no more thieves vying for the power, the planet seizes the magic back (hence the espers being literally ripped apart, as they're made of magic).  It seemed a good justification for the World of Ruin suddenly turning green again during the credits, a concept that was poorly explored in the original game.

Open world design isn't as practical for me, though.  Using geography as additional event constriction helps simplify the scenario... in fact, for ease of construction I'm not even going to have the plot be party-specific: the only time the event code will check for members in-party will be with Palom and Porom to speak to pigs and frogs respectively.  One of my ongoing goals has been to fit the hack within the confines of the original game (so no expansions allowed), so I've really got to squeeze as much as I can into a tiny space.



(03-14-2020, 10:53 AM)DrakeyC Wrote: A hack I'd like to see someone do is expand the story in the World of Ruin. While the wide-open world is nice, the story takes a nosedive and there's no overarcing plot anymore. I think it'd be cool to see a hack that adds a few more scripted events to give players more guidance and direction. Some ideas for that:

- When Humbaba uses Baba Breath to blow party members away, maybe they get blown off to the Veldt, the party has to go find them, recruit Gau, and rescue their party members in the Veldt cave. You would not have to do this immediately - your two lost party members would just be unusuable until lost, but with Terra and Gau joining, you'd still have a full party to do other things with.
- With the Veldt cave quest changed, Shadow could be found in Jidoor trying to save Relm.
- After doing a certain quest, Deathgaze attacks the airship and it crashes near South Figaro. The party has to go to Figaro to get parts to repair it and explores the underground channel that the castle moves through, during which players could find out about the Ancient Castle which branches off from that area.
- Strago relates to the party when rejoined that he kept reliving his past regrets, and one of them was what happened to Thamasa and he asks the party to take him there, which would nudge players to beginning the Hidon quest.

I'd also like to see the characters given specific dialogue for various appropriate circumstances. I assume this is a technical limitation it wasn't done before, have to code events to check for party members and give them unique dialogue, but hackers have the power to expand it:

- Give Sabin dialogue in the "Gerad" sequences
- Give Sabin and possibly Shadow and Gau dialogue in Cyan's nightmare. Locke could also have a small bit since he knows about the guilt of letting a loved one die
- Give Celes specific dialogue for seeing Terra at Mobliz
- Strago could have an expanded description of the Ancient Castle, since he knows more about the War of the Magi
- Terra could have a longer dialogue with Valigarmanda
- Cyan could say something on finding the Alexander Magicitie, like maybe it's a mythical guardian of Doma like in FF9
I actually did some of this in ReCast, motivated by Catone's interest in expanding the FF6 scenario.  After Celes boards the raft, Mog takes you back to Scenario Selection and you're given the option to pick between Celes, Relm, or Terra.  Relm's scenario sends her from Maranda to Owzer's basement and then to Mt. Zozo, whereas Terra's goes from Mobliz through Doma to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum.  The routes merge with the original scenario in Kohlingen.

The thoughts about Deathgaze are interesting, but I don't think I'm going to change any other events in my vanillish hack.
This thread is more about other homage hacks, like an FF4, FF5, or FF1 hack.
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Messages In This Thread
Plot Twists in Remasters - by C-Dude - 03-08-2020, 11:39 PM
RE: Plot Twists in Remasters - by PowerPanda - 03-09-2020, 11:51 PM
RE: Plot Twists in Remasters - by GrayShadows - 03-11-2020, 04:47 PM
RE: Plot Twists in Remasters - by MysticLord - 03-12-2020, 02:34 AM
RE: Plot Twists in Remasters - by DrakeyC - 03-14-2020, 10:53 AM
RE: Plot Twists in Remasters - by C-Dude - 03-14-2020, 09:12 PM

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