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+--- Thread: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos (/thread-2950.html)
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - MrEntity - 10-16-2015
The thing is that grinding is inconducive to a race. Grinding and racing are non-overlapping magisteria.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Tenkarider - 10-16-2015
Surely is not great grinding in a race, on the other side all you racers escape away too much times in speedcave... one thing is because it's a dangerous situation, another thing is because you wanna save some time... i feel like running less often might replace grinding
The other problem of running is that if done too much often it forces to keep running, after a certain point...
Said that i think i'm gonna stream in those days a speedcave "race": i'll just play it like i played standard BC... fighting often but without stopping to farm, except that i won't hunt down secret monsters this time(that would require to open the rom)
I'll try to be loyal with the thing of not farming(you'll still see me doing colosseum, but that don't give levels in any case) except that you'll see me repeat some fight with npc in the shops.
That would be segmented, knowing myself it will take me around 10-20 hours in total but you never know it... still i'm curious to see where i'm arrived after 4 hours...
If i'll do it in the proper manner it might be a good simulation of how would end up a race made in the way i'm talking about... coming soon!
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Cecil188 - 10-16-2015
Grinding isn't really that necessary though. I didn't grind at all, except for a point near the end where I did a small amount. Even still, the only advantage that little bit of grinding had was to change what battles were coming to easier ones. Additionally, Atma is basically impossible. I would rather fight any of the statues than Atma because Meteor, and sometimes Quake, are party wipes, and if you don't have an excellent damage output, Ultima will wipe you instead if you have no way of dealing with that.
On another note, I like the idea of ending at reaching the 3 switch room. It cuts out all of the boss walls, and it provides an end point for the race. Going for save points would be kind of like, "See how far you can get in the game in 3 hours" instead of racing to Kefka.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - MrEntity - 10-16-2015
The bosses are the problem. I don't run from anything in the speedcave unless it is unusually nasty. I fight everything. But proceeding beyond the bosses is impossible without grinding or extreme luck.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Tenkarider - 10-16-2015
If i'm not wrong when i fought Atma i tossed him all the shields and best throwables i had(i must say that Palidor helped as well) so that i was able to kill him before he could cast Meteor, it should be a bet in any case.
Uhm, so Cecil is agree... at this point what about this one:
We still search the 12 shops but the time limit is 3 hours.
That basically means that more or less the race will end at the switch room, but in this way speed won't be the only factor to count and you won't spend the 4th hour getting walled from bosses.
That will also give the chance of searching the last 3 shops to who spent more time in exploring/grinding in order to steamroll enemies in the 3rd area.
Kefka and Atma are virtually impossible to kill in 3 hours, so we can forget about them...
I can confirm that in my race 1 party literally didn't even need to fight(sure, due to moogle charm) but even using gale hairpin + running away grants really good chances to reach the switch without fighting really much(Lockirby2 reached the switch room with an avg party lv ~10 so it's not a big problem)
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Jackimus - 10-16-2015
I'd be down for a switch room race (first to have a party enter the door). That is a reasonable kefka in narshe-ish length.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - abyssonym - 10-16-2015
In my experience the bosses are doable without farming, but not in a race. What I mean is, if I'm able to plan out my party composition at my leisure, explore the dungeon fully, determine what espers to focus on, and move cautiously, then the bosses are still tough, but doable without grinding. In a race, I simply don't have enough time to optimize my teams so the bosses are brick walls.
Regarding a switch room race, that will play out quite differently from the race we just had. It will likely involve a lot more saving and running from battles... like, every battle except for some in the first zone. If you find a battle you can't run from, reset... it's faster than fighting. Next time you get to that map, just pay the 500 GP to save and do it over and over again until you can make it through without an encounter. Overall I'd expect to finish the race well below the 3 hour mark, maybe even under 2 hours.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Jackimus - 10-16-2015
lol, it can't be segmented abyss. you lose time by dying / resetting ad infinitum. It's gonna be better in a one-try environment, like a race, to be fighting in at least the first two areas per team so the ones in the 3rd don't just kill you at the start of every combat. even if you camp one team at a 500gp save point, you're still losing time by switching teams every room or two and saving again, all the times you'll die and have to wait through the game over screen, and your 3rd team won't be able to take advantage of this "exploit".
Also, Ive hit the switch room in under two hours without excessive fleeing and such (all 3 teams, i mean, obviously), i think it's a solid idea to try out.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - abyssonym - 10-16-2015
It wouldn't be segmented, RTA rules allow you to save and reset as long as you don't stop the timer. Even if you were forced to kill yourself and watch the game over screen, I still think this strategy would be faster because it takes so long to fight enemies. You don't just count the time it takes to fight one battle, you have to count the time it takes to fight enough enemies to become strong enough to fight that one battle, too.
That 10th shop makes a huge difference, because you don't know which team is going to be able to find it, and you have to move all the teams to reach it, so you don't have access to the 500 GP save point. Although to be honest, I'm not sure it makes enough of a difference that the strat I'm proposing wouldn't be reliable. We might all be chumps for fighting encounters in the cave in the first place.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Tenkarider - 10-16-2015
Ok, hear this one... i got an idea:
1) We toss away Narshe run, which sucks to be raced in BC, as someone else stated, since the chests are not meant to be set for racing,(their content are useless or backfire you 95% of the times, right MrEntity?) even more annoying the fact that a good 35% of the run is made of cutscenes
What we'll put instead of Narshe race will be speedcave race which has as goal to go inside the center door in the switch room, after all it's still a race similar to Narshe race and Jackimus claimed to have made it so far without too much effort in less than 2 hours(potentially even less than Narshe race!)
2) The final stage will be what i proposed in the previous post: speedcave race to find the 12 shops but with 3 hours as time limit.
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In this way we'll also be able to ponderate the 2 versions and see how much different they actually are.
Sounds better in this way?