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+--- Thread: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos (/thread-2950.html)
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Tenkarider - 09-29-2015
And we have the other 2 finalists!
1st: Mr. Entity
2nd: Abyssonym
3rd: Jackimus
I can't wait to see the finals!!!
Just to remember how the finals will be...
1) finalists are Lockirby2, Cecil188, Mr.Entity and Abyssonym
2) the race will be made on Speedcave mode
3) generic rules are the usual ones
4) flags are everything except blitz(remember to set the others manually with "speedcave" code)
5) the goal is totally different: cutscenes are removed, so there's no Nashe to save in Speedcave, you just start with 12 characters above Kefka's tower and a significant combination of maps of the games are shuffled inside the tower, Beyond Chaos!
Potentially the actual goal would be to Kick Kefka's godly-ass, but i'm afraid 4 hours are not even enough(still if someone would manage to do that in time, then he would be the winner for sure)
Assuming no one will be able to do that, your goal is finding as much shops as you can, which count as milestones inside the tower: there are 12 shops in total, 4 for each group, Abyss said the tower is somehow splitted in 4 big parts, each part has 1 shop for each group.
To be counted as found shop what you have to do is enter inside the room of the shop... then you can leave without even talking to the vendor, if you want.
6) end of the race: it's quite long so there will be a time limit: by default i leave 4 hours, but if you want you can even change it in 3 hours instead... as you wish.
Possibly don't make it last just 2 hours, i mean... hey, it's the final! it would be stupid if Narshe race would last longer, right?
NOTE: the race won't necessarily stop when you find all 12 shops! if someone does that, another player might still beat him if he manages to reach final Kefka within the time limit and beat him as well(he still wins if he's inside the final battle and the time is over, if he triggered the cutscene before the time was over)
but he still must find all 12 shops before challenging Kefka.
7) Tie-breaker: in case of draw the winner is the one who reached his last shop for first; if it's a tie breaker between kefka challengers, the winner is the one who kill him first, not the one who triggers the cutscene for first.
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Understood? good! now it's up to you to decide the date of the final!
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - MrEntity - 09-29-2015
That's why I won.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Tenkarider - 09-29-2015
Since there was a discussion about the actual goal of Narshe race(the heck, it's Narshe race, not Kefka race!) i'll officially define it:
Winning condition: Start Narshe assault, defeat Kefka and make him warp away from Narshe.
Why save narshe and not beat Kefka? because save Narshe is a defined fact: most races end in that way and so this one as well; in saving Narshe there's nothing to explain, right?
Defeating Kefka is much more vague: does the run end when he does escape command or later in the cutscene? is death counted as lost even in case of draw, since it doesn't trigger gameover?(gameover is not triggered, but i still see Kefka standing there...)
Even worse: what if i find Kefka in a MiaB? istant win? if the goal is defeat Kefka yes... that's so wrong that i don't even know where to start from.
In my BC run i made some time ago i found Kefka as MiaB in the chest in Returner's hideout, the one with a single bed, if that was the case i'd had win before even speaking to Banon!
That was also the reason why in my tasks i always specify as winning condition the map event after the battle(in narshe was make Kefka warp away) rather than the fight itself, that's also why i dislike when lockirby2 cuts the video when the victory fanfare starts.
I'd be happy if the stream would stop after he warped away, in the map... no doubt would be left anymore.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - MrEntity - 09-30-2015
But Kefka ran away AFTER JACK WAS DEAD. He hadn't gotten the game over screen yet, but that's because THERE IS NO GAME OVER SCREEN THERE. When the battle ended, he had basicalled STALEMATED. I maintain my position that tactically and role-playingly the win condition for that section of the game is to PROTECT THE ESPER (which involves protecting Banon). If Kefka runs away and you die, guess what? the troops maintain their assault. If they get past Banon, they've still won.
In my eyes the fact that Jack won that battle (which he technically didn't - Kefka was still there as an encounter who hadn't left the field of battle) was completely an artifact of the specific order in which events were played out. His party still died, he still got thrown back to the start of the scenario, he still had to do it over, it clearly didn't count as far as the game (the arbiter final) was concerned.
In future, we clearly have to either on a determining end factor (starting the Kefka fight, making Kefka run, or winning the scenario) or it is all up in the air and will be argued over indefinitely.
For me, I think that to win the SCENARIO involves making the game realize you've won the scenario. If it is just winning the Kefka fight, then it is just until Kefka runs away. If it is just a race TO Kefka, then it is clearly to starting the Kefka fight in Narshe, battle unnecessary (and anyone who claims a monster-in-a-box victory is clearly a douche (you might as well claim you'd won at the imperial camp). And if it is making Kefka run away then there is a large argument to be made over whether him running from that one battle counts as him running from the field.
We just need to define the goal more clearly in the future and that will clearly be up to the racers.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Jackimus - 09-30-2015
Tenka, I think you're missing the joke. I argued something asinine because it was funny.
EDIT: Andrew too, apparently. It's a game, who cares man. Fun times.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Tenkarider - 09-30-2015
Fair enough, Jackimus.
Mr Entity, i dunno what other problem you have: i clearly said what makes finish the run: Kefka warps away from narshe, in the map event... end.
There's nothing else to define: it's already defined.
Said that, prepare yourself for the final and lemme know which day it'll happen.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - MrEntity - 09-30-2015
Ah, I misunderstood your wording.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Tenkarider - 09-30-2015
Oook, since i really wanna know when it happens i'll make the first step:
Cecil188 said he has enough time only in weekends, which shortens the range alot; now i dunno if you consider Friday night as part of the weekend or not(me not) anyway i'm busy friday night so i'd recomend Saturday or Sunday as date.
On a side note i don't like very much Sunday night, late hours in particular for the same reason of yesterday...
What about you guys? Saturday or Sunday? let make hear your voice
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Cecil188 - 09-30-2015
Just for clarification: There might be times outside of the weekend that I may be able to race. It's just that my timetable is ridiculous, and some days it's just sparse enough to fit a 2 hour race, but not a 4 hour race. If you guys have any ideas for times outside of the weekend, feel free to mention it, just don't be surprised if I shoot it down.
RE: Racing on twitch with Beyond Chaos - Lockirby2 - 09-30-2015
However, I might have trouble racing outside weekends at the times that Jackimus and Andrew like to race at. I have to get up at 6:45, so I go to bed at 11:00.
As for the rules, I thought it was pretty clear what the win condition was. Jackimus was clearly just joking around because he was last and it didn't matter; nobody involved was actually dumb enough to count that as a win. Common sense that you have to win the fight to win the race is enough.