Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)
FF6 - Brave New World

06-18-2013, 01:14 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-18-2013, 01:22 PM by Bluerobin427.)
#51
Posts: 25
Threads: 0
Thanks Received: 0
Thanks Given: 0
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 0
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
So far I'm just to Thamasa in the World of Balance, but I'm enjoying myself so far. This mod's done something really interesting for me and I both love and dislike almost everything. Tongue The dislike is honestly probably just because of how much flexibility I'm used to having and how now there's much, much less, but I'll get in to that a bit (edit: a LOT) more later. Also, I'm not even in the World of Ruin, so I don't have the full picture yet. Also also, sorry this ended up being waaaaaaaay longer than I expected when I started; tl;dr's at the bottom.

The new esper/character archetyping system is the main thing I love and hate. I really, really like the idea of each character having a small set of roles they can fill based on which espers they primarily level up with. I also like how character spell lists are restricted so that they don't all end up basically the same. The problem with this, though, is that some characters (mostly the physical-focus ones) only get 2 or 3 espers and a correspondingly small spell list and number of roles. Cyan's got a neat paladin thing going with his 3-esper spell list, but I feel like it's not worth casting spells with him because his magic power's going to be crap and he's not going to have the MP to use any of the big ones twice, plus he's so slow that by the time the heal goes off the target's going to be dead. Sabin and Shadow are similar stories, although they get some versatility from Blitz and Throw as well as weapon effects I guess. I guess you don't need everyone to fulfill multiple roles, but it still feels... off.

Gau is another weird mixed bag for me. He only has one esper before the World of Ruin and since I've been using Gau pretty much since I got him his stamina is through the roof. The Defender Rage's Harvester is a ridiculous overheal that also cures most statuses (looks like this was toned down a bit in the most recent update) and Gau almost never gets hit by status effects or Demi/Quartr. Also, pumping his evade up to 80+ means he's pretty usable without having to be in the back row. I like the variety (I'm sure my like-bordering-on-fetish for variety has made itself known by now) and usefulness of his Rages, but he's pretty useless other than them, which is a little sad. Getting Fenrir for Regen and HasteX will be nice I'm sure.

Locke is my favorite so far. Great speed, evasion, and damage, plus healing, but steal is... kind of sad. At least the Thief Glove gives some nice stat boosts so I can Mug and not waste turns with stealing. It's nice to use it as a source of consumables and there are probably a few enemies worth stealing from (the 9+ Butterfly knives I got financed some nice upgrades), but it's always a little sad going through a whole dungeon and not even having enemies I can steal from. That last part is my main issue with it, since it pretty much removes 1/3 of Locke's use for large portions of the game.

Along the same lines (and these are both mentioned in the ReadMe, I just didn't quite realize the scope of the changes), it's almost not worth it to go after treasure chests if they're out of the way, because a lot of the neat or potentially powerful items have been removed from chests. I still go for them in the vague hope I'll get something other than another X-potion or Tincture, but mostly I'm disappointed.

I love how armor/weapons stay useful longer, but it means there are fewer upgrades, to the point where the Tiger Mask I have on Gau might be what he's wearing at the end of the game. Actually, looking at the equipment list again, about 1/3 of the equipment I have now is probably what I'll be using at the end of the game, assuming I don't go for things that are mostly side-grades. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, especially considering it's almost all store-bought from before the World of Ruin. I would say "looks like I'll have lots of money to use with GP Rain!" except I don't typically use Setzer much. (Hmm... another side note, Setzer with some speed boosting items would actually be a really nice healer once I get the World of Ruin espers. Looks like I actually will be using him more this playthrough!)

tl;dr: Reading back through this, it sounds like I'm bashing the mod a lot, but I really do like most of the changes. It puts a lot of restrictions on a normally very free-form game, which makes me squirm a little (ok, a lot) and makes me use characters I wouldn't normally use (I often forgo Celes and Terra completely and rarely use Strago or Relm, but that's a bit too much magic to miss out on with this mod). I'll probably give another update once I get most of the way through the World of Ruin.

The one typo I noticed was in the Beginner's School in Narshe (I think someone in the far right world, the word "character" is misspelled).

Also, two quick questions as I'm leaving:
1) Do some of Edgar's tools use Magic to calculate their damage? Otherwise Magic in general is pretty useless for him (except Cure 2; useful, but still only one use), which seems weird considering he has an esper that boosts it.

2) Can I use my existing save with a new version of the hack? I feel like it should work as long as I keep the filenames the same, but I wanted to check.
  Find
Quote  

06-18-2013, 01:52 PM,
#52
Posts: 240
Threads: 3
Thanks Received: 8
Thanks Given: 1
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 4
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: Cyan's got a neat paladin thing going with his 3-esper spell list, but I feel like it's not worth casting spells with him because his magic power's going to be crap and he's not going to have the MP to use any of the big ones twice, plus he's so slow that by the time the heal goes off the target's going to be dead.

Cyan's magic actually has its usefulness. Anyone who can cast Cure 2 can contribute in a healing capacity, and Regen is exceptionally useful to have around. Further, Empowerer makes Cyan's low MP max a non-issue; Synchysi touts him as the game's best OOC healer.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: Sabin and Shadow are similar stories, although they get some versatility from Blitz and Throw as well as weapon effects I guess.

I'll admit not to using Sabin's magic much (although there was one dude that was getting some pretty good mileage out of spamming Quake with him), but the little that Shadow gets should see quite a bit of use if you utilize him much. He's a good buffer with Float/Safe/Haste(X), and his high stamina means that Regen will double as an effective healing spell.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: I like the variety (I'm sure my like-bordering-on-fetish for variety has made itself known by now) and usefulness of (Gau's) Rages, but he's pretty useless other than them, which is a little sad. Getting Fenrir for Regen and HasteX will be nice I'm sure.

I deliberately limited Gau's spell selection outside of Rage since Rage sort of *is* his spell selection, and the choices I want the player to focus on is "what Rage should I use?" rather than "should I use Rage at all or just sling spells?"

Ideally, Gau will toss up a HasteX, maybe a Regen or two, and then it's off to Rageville.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: Locke is my favorite so far. Great speed, evasion, and damage, plus healing, but steal is... kind of sad. At least the Thief Glove gives some nice stat boosts so I can Mug and not waste turns with stealing. It's nice to use it as a source of consumables and there are probably a few enemies worth stealing from (the 9+ Butterfly knives I got financed some nice upgrades), but it's always a little sad going through a whole dungeon and not even having enemies I can steal from. That last part is my main issue with it, since it pretty much removes 1/3 of Locke's use for large portions of the game.

This is a fairly common complaint we've been getting. The unlockable Printme file contains a full list of what can be stolen and who from, which actually makes it a bit more useful since it identifies exactly where your efforts should be focused (I personally find it most useful as a way to stock up on throwables for Shadow).

That said, I'm aware it's a lackluster ability compared to others. Something that may change in later versions is the possible addition of theft-exclusive equipment and/or having being stolen from somehow alter how the target fights you (like having it beserk them or something).


(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: Along the same lines (and these are both mentioned in the ReadMe, I just didn't quite realize the scope of the changes), it's almost not worth it to go after treasure chests if they're out of the way, because a lot of the neat or potentially powerful items have been removed from chests. I still go for them in the vague hope I'll get something other than another X-potion or Tincture, but mostly I'm disappointed.

A *lot* of useful/rare stuff still comes from chests, though most of it is endgame equipment in the World of Ruin.

I also tried my best to make X-Ethers and the like actually viable, and made it a point to actually use them. One thing in particular I've been noting is the tendency for players to use end-game Sabin as a mana battery, whereas I favored using my Ether stores and keeping him on offensive duty.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: I love how armor/weapons stay useful longer, but it means there are fewer upgrades, to the point where the Tiger Mask I have on Gau might be what he's wearing at the end of the game. Actually, looking at the equipment list again, about 1/3 of the equipment I have now is probably what I'll be using at the end of the game, assuming I don't go for things that are mostly side-grades. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, especially considering it's almost all store-bought from before the World of Ruin.

If you're at Thamasa, then the Tiger Mask should be the *only* piece of equipment you have that will still be useful in the endgame. And that's a bit of a special case, since Sabin and Gau are both very powerful characters whose primary drawbacks are their lack of decent equipment.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: I would say "looks like I'll have lots of money to use with GP Rain!" except I don't typically use Setzer much. (Hmm... another side note, Setzer with some speed boosting items would actually be a really nice healer once I get the World of Ruin espers. Looks like I actually will be using him more this playthrough!)

We haven't heard back from anyone actually using GP Rain, so let us know.

Control is another skill that seems mostly ignored, to the point that I imagine we'll probably dump it in a later version of the mod (GP Rain will stick around though, even if we have to edit its formula to make it more useful).

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: The one typo I noticed was in the Beginner's School in Narshe (I think someone in the far right world, the word "character" is misspelled).

Good catch, I'll fix it.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: 1) Do some of Edgar's tools use Magic to calculate their damage?

Flash and Bio Blaster.

I try to note this in the Printme file: anything that doesn't specifically say "physical damage" is implied to do magical damage instead.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: Otherwise Magic in general is pretty useless for him (except Cure 2; useful, but still only one use), which seems weird considering he has an esper that boosts it.

Siren was a very, very hard esper to think of a good, non-redundant boost for. Celes is the primary target of Siren's boost; Edgar just happens to be there, too.

(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: 2) Can I use my existing save with a new version of the hack?

Yes. I made a note of that in the Readme.
Quote  

06-18-2013, 02:44 PM,
#53
Posts: 288
Threads: 3
Thanks Received: 40
Thanks Given: 1
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 9
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
(06-18-2013, 01:52 PM)BTB Wrote:
(06-18-2013, 01:14 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: 2) Can I use my existing save with a new version of the hack?

Yes. I made a note of that in the Readme.

To expand on this a bit, you can use save states and usually not have any problems when updating to a new version, but I still try to encourage players to do an in-game save before updating.


GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.

Brave New World
  Find
Quote  

06-18-2013, 06:02 PM,
#54
Posts: 25
Threads: 0
Thanks Received: 0
Thanks Given: 0
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 0
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
The rebalance stuff is feeling better the more I play, and the justifications you give make a lot of sense. Most of my complaints are just me getting used to the characters' roles. I really like Gau's Rage selection and I feel like I always have one that fits the situation, so good work there. I'm the type of player that leaves all of my good items in my inventory "just in case" and then never uses them, so... that's probably why finding consumables in chests is disappointing for me. I'll see if I can get out of that habit. I'm going to be using Relm quite a bit I think, so I'll let you know how Control feels. Also, almost immediately after that post I found a few really useful things in chests, so the hack was helping me eat those words, too.

Thanks for the info about updating. You mentioned the unlockable Printme... is the password for that in the files/hack? If it's something I can/should find on my own I'll look harder for it, I just wanted to make sure.
  Find
Quote  

06-18-2013, 06:46 PM,
#55
Posts: 288
Threads: 3
Thanks Received: 40
Thanks Given: 1
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 9
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
(06-18-2013, 06:02 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: I'm the type of player that leaves all of my good items in my inventory "just in case" and then never uses them, so... that's probably why finding consumables in chests is disappointing for me. I'll see if I can get out of that habit.

I'm the same way. I don't even sell equipment; I finish the game with bucklers and mythril bolos and other crap stinking up my inventory.

That said, X-Potions and X-Ethers were incredibly helpful my last time against Kefka. The fact that they affect the entire party is pretty awesome.

Quote:Thanks for the info about updating. You mentioned the unlockable Printme... is the password for that in the files/hack? If it's something I can/should find on my own I'll look harder for it, I just wanted to make sure.

The password is available upon beating the game. Unfortunately most of the extras in the Unlockme archive are unfinished.


GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.

Brave New World
  Find
Quote  

06-19-2013, 01:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-19-2013, 01:34 PM by Bluerobin427.)
#56
Posts: 25
Threads: 0
Thanks Received: 0
Thanks Given: 0
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 0
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
Alright, a couple of weird bugs I stumbled on in the Floating Continent. Shadow had a Naginata and a Blossom and I had a couple weird Break effect targeting bugs. It looks like the instant death effect from the Naginata had the possibility of triggering the Blossom's Break effect, but it targeted a random monster from the battle, but I'm not sure. Both times I noticed it only the Naginata hit, then the instant death effect happened, then the Break happened, with no Blossom attack in between. Once was in a battle with a Behemoth, a Dactyl, and a Djinni after the Behemoth and Djinni were dead, the instant death triggered on the Dactyl and the Break effect went off on where the Behemoth used to be. I don't remember the other time.

The second bug was in a battle against two Brainpans and... the thing that casts Quake and can be sketched for Holy Wind. Setzer used slots, I hit 3 bars and he randomed Phoenix's Rebirth. The weird thing was that his sprite slid left in to the middle of the enemies when he did it. I THINK he slid after "Rebirth" came up but before the casting animation, but I'm not 100% sure.

Neither one is gamebreaking by any means, just weird. I'm having fun playing around with characters I never used before, and my way underleveled Relm/Setzer/Cyan/Shadow party on the Floating Continent ended up leveling a lot and dominating Atma Weapon with Sketched Flares, constant Go Fish for healing or Solitaire for damage, Cyan's Dragon, and Shadow playing the speedy stabber and/or item user. Those X-potions are crazy useful when Shadow's turn is always just around the corner and no one else has reliable multi-target healing.
  Find
Quote  

06-19-2013, 02:23 PM,
#57
Posts: 288
Threads: 3
Thanks Received: 40
Thanks Given: 1
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 9
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
(06-19-2013, 01:30 PM)Bluerobin Wrote: Alright, a couple of weird bugs I stumbled on in the Floating Continent. Shadow had a Naginata and a Blossom and I had a couple weird Break effect targeting bugs. It looks like the instant death effect from the Naginata had the possibility of triggering the Blossom's Break effect, but it targeted a random monster from the battle, but I'm not sure. Both times I noticed it only the Naginata hit, then the instant death effect happened, then the Break happened, with no Blossom attack in between. Once was in a battle with a Behemoth, a Dactyl, and a Djinni after the Behemoth and Djinni were dead, the instant death triggered on the Dactyl and the Break effect went off on where the Behemoth used to be. I don't remember the other time.

I'll see if I can duplicate this. From the sound of it, I think I might know what's happening, and this particular bug should have been present in the unmodified version as well.

Quote:The second bug was in a battle against two Brainpans and... the thing that casts Quake and can be sketched for Holy Wind. Setzer used slots, I hit 3 bars and he randomed Phoenix's Rebirth. The weird thing was that his sprite slid left in to the middle of the enemies when he did it. I THINK he slid after "Rebirth" came up but before the casting animation, but I'm not 100% sure.

Someone else reported sprite glitchy weirdness with Rebirth as well. What's got me confused is that I'm able to duplicate it on an unmodified ROM as well, yet I've never seen it reported/posted anywhere as a bug.

I wouldn't know where to begin to fix it, aside from toning down Rebirth's animation, since it's quite large.


GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.

Brave New World
  Find
Quote  

06-19-2013, 02:37 PM,
#58
Posts: 240
Threads: 3
Thanks Received: 8
Thanks Given: 1
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 4
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
...this makes *how* many bugs we've discovered since we started working on this thing?

(Also, I'm assuming that Naginata = Ninjato)
Quote  

06-19-2013, 04:21 PM,
#59
Posts: 288
Threads: 3
Thanks Received: 40
Thanks Given: 1
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 9
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
Version 1.0.9 is up. I created this patch in a slightly different way than the previous versions, so if you see anything weird, let me know.


GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.

Brave New World
  Find
Quote  

06-19-2013, 06:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-19-2013, 06:49 PM by Bluerobin427.)
#60
Posts: 25
Threads: 0
Thanks Received: 0
Thanks Given: 0
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 0
Status
None
RE: FF6 - Brave New World
Yup Naginata = Ninjato. I wrote notes to myself so I could report the bugs as accurately as possible... then I lost them. Sad

Edit: Also, what's the "overleveling protection" you put on Atmaweapon? I was level 23-25ish with my party, the "leveling a lot" part just meant I took the party from level 17-19 to 23-25 over the course of the Floating Continent. I'm a little worried I hyperbolized too much.

You guys are great, by the way. Thanks for taking time to give feedback, justify changes, and explain why things are the way they are.
  Find
Quote  



Forum Jump:


Theme by Madsiur2017Custom Graphics by JamesWhite