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Titan Extreme

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(07-09-2014, 09:24 PM)Tenkarider Wrote: Due to apply an american patch to another language rom, Tumult(special) results me as Mountain Buster, and the actual Mountain Buster is called Mt. Buster... weird. Anyway they both trigger the bug, despite i know how to not trigger it(Mt. Buster makes it more rarely, anyway).

Actually, its due to the fact that I had originally put the increased special name length patch and was going to have Mountain Buster be a special... but when I changed it to its own standalone move I removed the patch, but the data was still there... so you are seeing some old obsolete data... which there is incidentally a bunch of in this patch.
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Done. Won using only Terra and Celes against Titan EX Sad Wink


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZxRBe5Q04 (part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMlYUgk66mw (part 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Yjs0-kbX8 (part 3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-4pML6KGs (part 4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5G8SsatZmA (part 5)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzMmvjNR4Is (part 6)



It took me a lot of time(about 1:15:00), in order to not scrap the whole battle, following my stategy.

The battle:

Terra, Celes Lv 99
Equip: Atma, Paladin SH, Genji Helm, Genji armor;
Illumina, Force SH, Arcane veil, Gaia gear

Spells: everything, plus Golem and Palidor espers(worthless at the end)

Relics: True Knight, Black Belt;
Economizer, White cape

Stats: Too much hassle... check my video Laugh (anyway Celes has 129% MBlock)

Strategy: Basically Terra is an uber wild tank that always protect Celes, when she's near to die(almost always), and counters with ~9999 damage using Atma, this is the only way to attack in the tower, without going berserk and keep Terra ready to do something else;
Celes is frail, but it's impossible to hit her, due to 129% MBlock, and absorbs earth element, actually she's almost invincible and doesn't need of Terra, but plays the role of the bait for Titan's Mt. buster and attacks.

They protects each other(in a different way), in order to stand to the rage of Titan EX...
The balance of the battle is totally unstable: if i do ever a single mistake, i risk to lose with just one attack Surprised

That explains why i almost never act: i rely only on the counterattack, while keeping ATB bars always full, if i'd act, and Titan manages to act before me, it may kill the other ally, then i won't be able to revive her right in time to avoid Inter Infamous skill of Titan, that steals dead allies, and be doomed at the next landslide/Mt. buster.
I can act only right after the first barrage of attacks, the second one won't forgive me, because it ends often with landslide or Mt.buster, the only spell that allow me to risk is quick, because it blocks ATB and allows you to act, after the mess happened

Another advantage of counter attack is that i won't risk to trigger R.polarity, it switch current ally rows, and if he hits Terra with a single Mt. buster, then the strategy is broken.
Too bad that in this way Titan won't trigger next forms, too...
Since i don't want to spoil the fun to me/you, in the video i attack him suddenly with a manual command: despite it's against my strategy, the true purpose is to trigger the next forms, that made me do an approssimate evaluation on the HP of each form, they should be:

- about 100.000 on first form;
- about 100.000 on second form(still in the tower, but when starts to use quake);
- about 100.000 on third form(in the sky);
- about 500.000 on fourth form(inside the cave);
- about 500.000 on last form(after he gets angry and do the last attack)

The reason why my strategy is deadly is because Titan abuse of nomal attacks, but that is my source of power: Terra may manage to counter him about 8 times in a row.

If Terra dies, then Celes use life 2, and the tank returns, if Celes dies, then Terra use life 1, that will save mp and puts Celes immediately in near death status(and be ready to be a perfect bait again).

Earth attacks are useless against me, but the heal to celes may exploit her bait role, due to Terra won't be able to protect again, if she's not near death... so i use Titan's AI as a weapon to solve the problem: i use life 3 on Celes, that's useless because Titan will landslide immediately any char that has Life 3 on himself, but that will put again Celes on near death status Wink

The plume warns you always with target, so it's not a problem, but starting from fourth form, you may risk to not be able to set float and heal at the same time, so i use quick to not risk: after all they have to do the work of 4 allies in 2(forget to use quick to attack, you'll be countered with a death landslide that targets the party).

The only thing that may ruin my strategy for real, is EarthFury, the final form exclusive attack, since it does 8400-9200 fixed damage to the party(undodgeable, no element). While testing, it never used it on me(using only counterattacks), to be fair i was planning to attack him manually once, in order to show that i could handle the last attack too, but i barely managed to survive when he did it the move suddenly, out of my previsions:
I was planning to swicth from tank stance to defensive stance, because Terra may easily go under the minimum value of HP required to survive, after some counter. The Titan anticipated me and luckily i survived taking minimum damage possible, while having 8800 HP.
I believed it was forced by the coming up of the last form, so one single unpredictable mistake, but i realized it was part of his normal attack routine only at the second Earthfury(less risky anyway... i had 9400 HP).

After that, i turtled my party Laugh with a perma-defensive stance, that made me waste a lot of time... kept them at 9999, Celes put on Clear too, that to make sure to avoid attacks, but the best reason to do it is that you dodge Mt. buster, since it's a physical attack(i bet that only 1/100 figure it out XD ), to keep clear on, it's required to use quick more often.

After all this mess, The Titan finally went down... what a relief.
Without counting attempts used for figure out which relics won't make you even start the battle, it took me less than 20 times to build up my strategy with 4 allies, and only 2 times to win with Terra and Celes.


That was a really nice battle!!! Wink
Planned better than Emperor Dragon, if you ask me.

PS. to make trigger next forms, even after a counter, you should put a one-time check in the attack routine too, despite the waste of bytes, but it's worth the effort, if the battle results more fluent.


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(07-10-2014, 10:38 AM)Tenkarider Wrote: It took me a lot of time(about 1:15:00), in order to not scrap the whole battle, following my stategy.

Wow. It was never intended to take that long, but I guess a win is a win. Good job.

(07-10-2014, 10:38 AM)Tenkarider Wrote: PS. to make trigger next forms, even after a counter, you should put a one-time check in the attack routine too, despite the waste of bytes, but it's worth the effort, if the battle results more fluent.

Thanks for the tip. TBH i never considered somebody using only counterattacks on him, tho you're right, he is pretty susceptible to them. Maybe I'll fix that. You kinda missed the theme of the fight, but that's more my fault for not making dodging more mandatory. Until pretty late in the game I had intended Landslide to remove characters from battle but decided that was a little too unforgiving, but if it turns out to be easier to sit in one place the whole fight I might have to put it back.

If you'd like to challenge yourself (that is your thing, right?), try learning him a bit better, maybe take a brief look at the script (particularly the counter side), he can easily be beaten in about 20 minutes.

Edit: Oh hey, Vanish nullifies Mt. Buster... I never tested it but I assumed "Can't be dodged" would cover that but apparently not.

Also, I was wrong about the glitch. its gotta be something else... this is really annoying.
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#24
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"Wow. It was never intended to take that long, but I guess a win is a win. Good job."

"If you'd like to challenge yourself (that is your thing, right?), try learning him a bit better, maybe take a brief look at the script (particularly the counter side), he can easily be beaten in about 20 minutes."

It was definitively possible to win in much less time, but as i said i fought with ONLY 2 members, and acting, you may risk to find yourself with one ally dead and the other that have to wait his turn again(the dead ally will be intered at 100%)

I don't suggest you to set landslide as a character remover and Mt. buster not dodgeable with clear(or not at the same time, at least), that because when you need to switch quickly the rows, you'll hardly make in time to switch all the allies at the right position: Titan act quite fast, and for example, if he uses r.polarity, i barely manage to switch 1 or 2, in the worst of the cases, you'll end to have all the allies in the same row(while switching) and be one shotted by a landslide, or Mt. buster(if you survive at Mt.buster, your fighting power is scrapped anyway...).

My fighting style is passive at 100%, so if i need to act with allies, the ATB will be always full, but another one will hardly be ready to act in time for survive with all 4 allies at the same time.

Besides, if you play too fast, you'll be destined to trigger the bug, sooner or later. Until you fix the bug... it's better that you don't fix anything else

If you don't ban True knight, i'll keep to use it for sure: it's the fastest way to kill him(offering is banned, genji glove is a suicide, besides you shouldn't have a gem box until that moment, since Titan drops it, instead of Magimaster, Quadra slice is great, but too much slow, if not prepared while another ally is in quick mode).
At maximum i'll attack even with others and eventually consider to switch lines when required, but i may end up in the problems listed above.

It's nice to set special conditions to one battle, but try to not force them too much to the player, or you'll risk to ruin the creativity and force one single possible strategy, in order to win. Wink

PS. if you put R.polarity in the attack routine, i surely won't be able to keep the same position anymore.


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#25
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The theme for the fight is positioning. So if you aren't moving your characters, then I did something wrong making the boss. If Mt. Buster is dodgeable, then it removes the need to position your characters properly, if you can just eat Landslide and rez, then I'm not making the move threatening enough. In FFXIV getting hit by landslide knocked you out of the ring and you were DONE, leaving the remaining party to try to finish without you. knowing when landslide was coming and how to avoid it was key. I wanted to mirror that. It's possible to know exactly when and where landslide will hit 100% of the time... without even all that much knowledge. I would prefer not to give you strategy tips, but try thinking about how/when Titan picks his moves, including counters.
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Then do the changes and we're set.
Clear doesn't affect dodge value: if it's physical attack, then clear will ignore it, no matter what.
Landslide removes the party? perfect. Let's make it happen, it's starting to become tasteless my victory, without following the theme of your battle.
If you won't ban Black Belt, then put the trigger in the attack routine too, even if i may trigger the next phase with a normal attack, i may do it with a counterattack too.

Actually i knew since the beginning when and where they attack(when landslide hits a single ally and not 2, like in a 2 vs Titan isn't anymore a great menace, afterall), maybe not so much about the counter, due to the discovery of the counter attack(i can study a bit the script, anyway).

Do what you want, but please, fix as soon as possible the bug, i won't try the battle anymore, until you fix it...
I cannot stand a battle crush after i'm at the end of the fight Sad

Playing passive won't make it trigger, because you don't have to move, but just dare to act while Titan makes his turn, and the bug will hunt you.

Actually it's triggered by special, doing almost anything: swapping current turn with the one of another ally, opening item, dealing with magic list(one among open that window, or closing it) and probably decide the action and so pass to the next ally turn.
Mt. buster does it too, but it's less frequent.
Even landslide seems that may mess sometimes with the bug.

At this point i might say that any of your custom animations could trigger the bug(i'll never test Earthfury anyway Laugh ), just i don't get why the special too, but maybe the animation type could belong to the special's animations that gives some problem to the game? test that animation in a normal FF6 rom, in the case.

One time it happened something really weird: I triggered the bug, then, after a while, it suddenly appeared Interceptor's static sprite next to Cyan(maybe), it had a different palette... after few seconds, seems like that triggered death party landslide(if i recall, Interceptor's status check was inside the attack routine too... ).

Does this stuff gives some clue about the bug? I hope it so...


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#27
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Updated the ips again. Didn't ban Black Belt, or add the phase changes to the main script yet, but I did make both using vanish and blackbelt slightly less savory by adding a chance to cast Demi instead of one of his startup attacks leaving the chance to have vanish removed and your party member killed and have his level cut with Mt. Buster, and also reducing the total number of counterattacks you might get over time. So you can still use your strat (for now), but it will likely take even longer, and his passive attacks are a little more threatening.

I also changed Tumult's animation hoping *maybe* its causing the glitch... haven't run into it the little bit I did testing this afternoon. So I'd like to see if people are still getting the problem. Also, I removed the obsolete data so his special should actually read "Tumult" now for those who had the 16-letter special patch on.

Also, I realized I had been doing most of my testing with the Gem Box, never considered how much it helped til a fought Titan without it. It's starting to feel the way I want it to, still totally doable. Just gotta pay attention.
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"So you can still use your strat (for now)"

While that may be true due to the sudden HP loss for Atma damage and due to not being able to take the whole damage of the barrage, without dying, that won't mean that i'll try the whole battle again.

I may do some test to see if the bug is triggered or not, for the rest, i'll fight seriously only in the final version release, when you'll be sure about your boss at 100%: i don't want to win now with counter attacks and then being forced to fight again a version that denies Blackbelt, that just steals my time from create the final version of my Czar Hold on

Anyway, the more you'll power up his passive attacks, the more you'll make the life impossible to the other potential players of your hack(eventually even mine, if you'll ban the Black belt later...).


"Also, I realized I had been doing most of my testing with the Gem Box, never considered how much it helped til a fought Titan without it."

That means that you banned the Gem box too? To my opinion it would be a correct decision, since you said the fight should be planned to follow the progress of a normal gameplay, so you shouldn't have the Gem Box in that moment, or it will be a contraddiction.

Said that, without it, you'll be forced to use quick to save 2 allies that dies at the same moment, and the fight in the tower will be terribly slow, not much a surprise that i moved my strategy on melee attacks at any cost...


EDIT: tested for a bit, but actually i think that's enough.

The bug doesn't trigger anymore: if you haven't done any other particular kind of edit, then i'm pretty sure it was fault of the previous animation selected for the special, i know it because i tested all the 256 animations, just for fun, long time ago Laugh

When you go above the first 50 ones, then you start to find misc. stuff: similar animations with different palettes, weird animations/sounds, and obviusly lots of game crush animations.
Despite it may not do anything, right on that moment,... my theory is that the special triggered some shit even when nothing seemed to happen: That triggered stuff extended the probem even to the other moves, waiting only that the shit hits the fan.


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#29
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No, Gem Box isn't banned. Like i said, you can take whatever you want in there. Titan doesn't force you not to use it. I actually thought you could get more Gem Box by betting Economizers won from Brachosaur in the colluseum, but I had that backwards. I just figured if there are any people playing it on the save's first run of the tower then they wouldn't have X-Magic and I wanted to test it.

Don't know if anyone is still playing the boss or not, has anyone else seen the glitch pop up with the Tumult update?

If its working properly now I may just make this the final version. I want to start getting the real patch (the standalone AI upgrade) ready.

Also, while on the subject, does anyone have suggestions for other upgrades to the AI (targetting, conditionals, miscellaneous actions) they would like to see implemented? If something seems feasible and like it may have more than a couple very specific reasons to use it, it may end up in the official patch! So let me know what you think!
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It's better to collect someone else feedback, maybe Gi Nattak?
Looks like he tested it a bit, some day ago...

If you want to keep this as the final version, then consider that it's still possible to never change rows, until the landslide won't remove characters from battle, is that ok for you?


About possible upgrades to AI patch, i'll write my list of wishes Laugh i'll probably write some redundant stuff, or already possible to do it, just to be sure to have written everything:

- Make possible to have access to unlisted moves, like joker doom(the one in the list is a fake: it's actually a dispatch), chainsaw...

- Find the way to make use to monsters all the espers that targets enemies and eventually even desperations(this may be too much difficult, anyway) and any other attack that doesn't work properly if used by a monster;

- Target both dead and alive characters at the same time? target properly dead monsters: i remember that i didn't manage to cast life 2 to give the possibility to a monster to revive his mates...
Target allies that are defending, or only the one who are not defending;

- Make work correctly the change form feature, i don't know if Titan changed forms, or simply swapped background, but scrolling stages is great, especially if you manage to scroll it not only up, but also in the other directions or some other types of fading, except the one already present. Besides i noticed that it's possible to change to forms that goes beyond the maximum number(over form #600, for example), over that number, starts to appear totally random unseen forms Surprised Do you know what does it mean?

- Make possible to the enemies to use properly all battle commands;

- Implement the check: If monster #X is alive, make appear that monster/s with HP refreshed: that would make possible to heal a monster at 100% without make it disappear and then reappear(if he's alone, the battle may end if you don't put another invisible monster not hidden in the form);

- Trigger event: i don't know if it's possible to give a better interaction with events from ff3usme, but it would be great, for example make them more accessible, or something... Maybe call a map event/warp directly from the battle? (like engulf attack, but that warps you in another place);

- Make work properly the command that make allies run from a side to another of the screen, possibly deciding how much do they move(from left side to half screen and the opposite, same with right side)

- Change sprite's palette in battle: imagine your Titan EX turning red in the last form... that would be cool, the same for allies;

- Triggers for the second half of the script(the counter):
make react the enemy to one command made from a character, even if it doesn't target himself, like... monster#1 counters when monster#2 is attacked... monster#1 counters when one character is hit by magic command;

- Checks on higher HP: they are limited to about 32767, if i want to trigger something when a monster has less than 50000 Hp, i'm not allowed to do that;

- Make work? command FC 0A XX XX (following commands will never be executed)... i never manage to use that command without making go wild the whole script... never figured out if it has some kind of use;

- Last request: there's a check that asks if Gau is in the party... is it possible to extend it to all the allies? (also Leo, Banon and other guys in the case...)

That's all, for now.


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