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+---- Thread: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) (/thread-2716.html)
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - abyssonym - 11-06-2015
The party-switching NPC is only available in "racecave" mode, because switching in the cave is complicated and it breaks the balance of the cave somewhat.
DavidB, I agree that the current implementation is suboptimal, but I don't think fixing it would improve things much. You'd still have to backtrack to the airship every time you want to change party members. Doing it this way simplifies the programming quite a bit, and I felt that it was a reasonable tradeoff.
Maybe try the "racecave" mode instead? "ancientcave" requires lots of backtracking by design; it's supposed to be a very long campaign. But in "racecave" you shouldn't need to backtrack at all, and you can switch your party members at the rest stops.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Jazz - 11-06-2015
Do you think i can edit the sprites on this patch? And what kind of tool did you guys used?
I really like to edit the sprites and the game patch looks really cool
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - DavidB1111 - 11-06-2015
I'm confused, I'd been able to handle ancient cave mode before just fine, with the way it was before.
Now you're basically telling me it's impossible to play Ancient Cave mode.
I don't want to race this game. I was perfectly happy with backtracking to get party members in my ship.
It wasn't broken, why did you fix it?
I enjoyed Ancient Cave mode, it was and still is a lot of fun.
I just don't see how forcing you to play with three party members to be able to even get new party members was a good idea.
Seriously, the previous form wasn't bad. It was kind of annoying, but it wasn't this level of annoying.
This just makes no sense, I mean no offense, but it really doesn't.
It just makes the game harder, for no reason.
You're forcing the player to do things far more tedious than they should, just to enjoy ancient cave mode.
That's not a good idea.
Up until this change, Ancient Cave mode wasn't even that tedious, or backtrack spam times.
I really don't get the change. Sure, it was long, but it was decent.
Changing the party members to not even go to the base after you have a full party, forcing you to only have parties of 3 constantly, or until you find all party members, just doesn't make any sense.
There wasn't even 1/5 as much backtracking involved in Ancient cave mode as it is now.
I mean, if I am missing something, please point it out, because the old system could not be worse than super random backtrack mode.
Ancient Cave was fun until this change, and I can't fathom why you added it.
To me, it makes it impossible to play. Because I am not running around with random 3 player parties, looking everywhere for a person, then constantly using Warp and backtracking over and over to get the other remaining party members, constantly getting 3 member parties and then repeating the process to the end of time.
I liked Ancient Cave mode! I really enjoyed this, and now you're basically sealing it off from me for no reason.
I'm really missing the point here, and I really need you to explain to me how it's a better system when you can't progress or do anything at all, without spending vastly more time backtracking and doing random party management.
I'm getting upset typing this because of how frustrated I am trying to explain just how confusing this system is!
I mean, I don't get it.
I mean, if I really am missing how this new feature is so good, let me know.
Because it makes Ancient Cave Mode completely unplayable to me, since there's nothing I can do but be bored to tears over neverending back tracking that does not even make the tiniest amount of sense. In a mode that had backtracking that I didn't mind, since I eventually got the Warp spell.
Whelk using Goner would make more sense, I'm just saying.
I'm sorry for the wall of text, but I'm simply upset over something I can't figure out.
I wouldn't be so upset if I didn't enjoy this modification so much.
I just can't simply figure out how I can play Ancient Cave mode again, with a feature that at least makes it 3 times more tedious and boring.
It simply boggles my mind I can't even play the only part of this game I really enjoy, finding a really neat seed and playing and beating Ancient Cave mode.
Even randomized base game isn't as fun as Ancient Cave, and that's full of silly worms that have instant death attacks that can only be blocked by Vanish.
I've gotten so far in so many different seeds, and I know one day I'd fine the perfect one.
Say something, please, tell me what I'm missing. I need to know what I'm missing.
I'm so upset, but I don't mean to be. I just...It's hard for me to explain things, you know. I need help to understand this. I can't handle this level of change.
Normally, I'm a calm person, I know I have Asperger's, and I have freak outs from time to time, but I just don't know how to explain myself, so I end up with giant walls of text.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - abyssonym - 11-06-2015
Tidus, I don't have any objections to you doing whatever you want with the randomizer or randomized roms, I'm not totally sure what you're asking though. Beyond Chaos is a randomizer, so it randomly changes the game rom and creates a different result every time you run it.
DavidB, one of the biggest complaints I got for the previous implementation was that party pickups don't go straight into the party, so that's why I changed that. I also saw this as an opportunity to increase the turnover rate of characters and make the party composition more dynamic. What I mean by that is, there are a few different ways that you can "lose" party members inside the cave, so being able to replace them with other characters makes for an interesting game mechanic. But the problem with that is, if the player recruits every character immediately like they did before, they wouldn't have any replacements waiting in the wings.
I thought that making the characters wait until you have an incomplete party is an elegant solution, since it already didn't make much sense for them to teleport back to the airship. I didn't see it as being more tedious because you have to go back to the airship to change party members anyway, and the rest stop usually isn't very far out of your way on the way back.
And, as I mentioned before, it's easier for me to make the characters simply do nothing if you have a full party.
I didn't think it was a big deal, but I can understand why you're feeling inconvenienced. I'm just not sure I can think of a solution that covers all of my bases as well as yours.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Jazz - 11-06-2015
Oh i see, Sorry about that i didnt read it carefully, Peace mate
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - DavidB1111 - 11-06-2015
I see. I'm sorry for the rambling insanity.
I just couldn't figure out the reasoning.
I understand it now, unfortunately, I can't really figure a way that this works for me, since by not recruiting characters, I can't progress, and without specifically organized party setups, I can't get more characters, ergo, we have what is known as a repeating cycle where I need A to get to B, and I need B to get to A.
My ability to play in a time loop is not something I am good at.
I'm not Chaos from Final Fantasy 1 after all.What you did is known as Organized Chaos.
You made it more stabilized. It's still random, but not all crazy.Too late to change your name of this mod.
I can understand the complaints, but who legit doesn't rewind if a party member gets Engulfed?
Which should be the only way to remove someone from the party, unless randomly, the enemies can Bababreath you.
I've never seen that, though.
I can understand the usefulness, but this change does not help me.
So, I can't play it until it's refined again.
I can play normal mode perfectly fine, but I simply can't handle the complete change up of every party I make constantly ,to on the fly recruit random people, and do this until everyone is recruited.
It's just too much more effort.
I'm sorry, I mean no offense, I'm not trying to say it's the worst idea since Napoleon's invasion of Russia.
It's just, I can't handle this at the moment in time.,
I love Ancient Cave mode, I do, but this change just is too much for me to even remotely handle. I can't switch up and make 3 member parties, I just can't.
It just adds too much backtracking. And my brain, and the way I play games, they just don't work for this.
I'm not a bad guy, I just ramble a lot, and am very passionate about things.
You're passionate about this, I'm passionate about playing this. It's my brain, it doesn't make sense compared to everyone else's.
I recommend you look at a book called "All Cats have Asperger's Syndrome." It's a perfect way to explain my brain.
Or you could become a licensed Psychiatrist/Psychologist.
But remember, you can't be a Psychologist, without being a little Psycho.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - abyssonym - 11-06-2015
I think we have different playstyles, is all. In my case, the new changes made less backtracking, because I could pick up party members in the dungeon and not need to return to the airship. I think you play it a little bit differently than me, maybe you focus on creating one strong team of 4 people, and use that team to recruit party members first. I admit I didn't think of playing it that way, so I didn't consider how the changes would make that strategy more difficult.
I'll try to think of a solution, but it will take some time, and I don't know how much. In the meantime, the old versions of the randomizer are still available on the Github, and I would like for more people to try out the racecave, so those are both options for you.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - DavidB1111 - 11-06-2015
I can try the Race Cave event, I just liked the sheer size of Ancient Cave mode.
And yeah, I try to set up my parties to be strong enough to stand on their own.
I'm weird.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Tenkarider - 11-06-2015
Quote:What you did is known as Organized Chaos. Smile You made it more stabilized. It's still random, but not all crazy.
How that is supposed to be less random? before you had fixed party members and new ones to recruit, now you randomly have some ally and you recruit right on the moment new people and also NPC are included, like Banon and Ghosts... if Ghosts dies, they disappear and their slot becomes free;
there's also a random character which leaves suddenly the party like Shadow in vanilla game: how that is supposed to be less random, again?
Unfortunately we'll never reach an agreement among all mankind(no matter the argument) so changes are done in order to improve the game, and while you're free to not like that change, i must say that i felt in the same way for difficulty in ROTDS, but it's not like i ordered to Gi Nattak to stop latest versions, i just own a version 1.0 copy in my laptop.
Said that i'd suggest you to do the same with BC previous versions, keep the previous version and do ancient cave with it, because i'm afraid this new feature won't be removed in future...
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Lockirby2 - 11-06-2015
(11-06-2015, 06:15 PM)DavidB1111 Wrote: I can understand the complaints, but who legit doesn't rewind if a party member gets Engulfed?
Actually, I think that's not really the norm. As far as I know most people don't really use rewinds for an average playthrough (I know I don't). Unless you just mean reloading the latest save, which I'd probably do immediately upon permanently losing a character, unless I had made a *lot* of progress, or the character is somebody that I don't really want around.
But yeah, by all means, if you prefer an older version, there's nothing wrong with playing the older version and ignoring this one forever. 0:-)