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+---- Thread: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) (/thread-2716.html)
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Tenkarider - 09-14-2015
Quote:most things in BC are actually randomized on a normal distribution, like rolling two dice, so extreme changes are more unlikely...
Another reason to not complain about bad randomization.
Abyss, honestly i think there's no need to search for further balance(unless new versions will mess up in a wrong way with the current one), i love meeting a really nasty enemy suddenly as much as finding a Genji shield in WoB.
That "if it's too hard to progress" i'd change it in "sometimes it's hard to progress", it never becomes "too hard".
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Cecil188 - 09-14-2015
Honestly, I think all of the feedback is good, David. It's nice to see different experiences from someone with a different skill level and play style. It allows me to think critically about my own feedback that I wish to give. And speaking of...
Feedback
Ok, so really, I just wanted to make a singular point about game balance. The Meteor spell. The balancing around Meteor is something that I believe could be improved on. It's kind of weak when used by the party, and with an MP cost of 62, it's almost pointless to use unless you have an Economizer. It basically stands as one of my least used spells, especially because Meteor seems to be x1 on the same Esper as Ultima, which only costs 18 MP more. But the real kicker isn't when the party uses it...
The enemies using Meteor are generally the most annoying thing in the game. It's nearly impossible to deal with, even Ultima can be runic-ed. The enemies that use it are generally the exact same enemies(L. 90 Magic, Atma, Kefka, Inferno, and a certain enemy that counters most of the time with Cura(ga)+Meteor). Most of these enemies are way too powerful, unrandomized, and generally wipe the party without fail. Given that the rest of the hack is generally easy enough to get through without grinding, Meteor usually just makes certain battles random chance, or forces the player to grind, which is uninteresting given that after grinding, the only reason the character can survive is just due to having absurd amounts of HP.
During the final battle, it generally forces me to spam 8x attack, Quick+Ultima, or Step Mine+Shield breaking. If Kefka's Meteor were balanced, I wouldn't have to rely on 1 of 3 possible strats, and I'd be able to use characters that have more interesting options more viably.
TL;DR: Meteor is too weak when used by the party, and too strong when used by the enemy.
As for balancing it, I'm not sure what to be done about it. Inferno in particular balances Meteor well, with a combination of it not wiping your party, as well as the more interesting feature of Meteor only being used under certain circumstances, which the player can control. However, with other enemies that are also unrandomized using it, changing their attack scripts might be dicey. I guess that leaves changing the spell properties itself. Lowering damage so that it doesn't party wipe makes it a useless spell for the party to use. Raising the power so that the party can use it makes it too similar to Ultima, and makes it even worse when enemies use it. Changing the MP cost(specifically, lowering it) could be interesting. It offers no advantage to the enemies, who have obscene magic point totals anyways, but it makes it more flexible, and accessible earlier to the party. I suppose it could also be flat out removed/replaced, but I'm not creative enough to think of something that could take its place.
Also, as a side note, I play my games by randomizing Espers so that each Esper can only be equipped by one random character. I realize that most people probably don't do that, and buffing Meteor for the player might make it broken instead. I guess the only thing to do is leave that to abyssonym to consider if Meteor should be balanced, and if so, how.
Rant over.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - abyssonym - 09-14-2015
Yeah, I've noticed that Meteor is a huge obstacle, too. I'm reluctant to change the properties of the spell because it would be the only spell I've modified. Right now Ultima has a sort of "restricted" status that prevents it from coming up in AI as often as other skills. I could apply the same "restricted" status to Meteor, but I don't know if that would be enough to fix the problem.
In truth, I was counting on players to use esper boosts to increase their HP enough to survive the final boss's attacks, but I would like the no-boost challenge to be playable as well.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Cecil188 - 09-14-2015
Granted, only 2 of my runs have had HP+100%, and maybe only half of them have had HP+50%. From there, HP+30% leaves a bit to be desired, and HP+10% is basically worthless. I guess it does take away emphasis on Magic Power boosts, as they're the only thing worth equipping as a boost in vanilla. Unfortunately, unless MP/Vigor/Stamina is useful, all Meteor really does is effectively decrease Magic Power in preparation to survive Meteor.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Tenkarider - 09-14-2015
Yeah, i guess that Meteor is quite broken, when used from enemies, still remember when they used it to me and dealt 5000 damage(random monsters) luckily they were weak to Istant Death, but with Storyline Bosses it would be a good idea to do something
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - DavidB1111 - 09-14-2015
Thank you, Cecil, and Abyss.
I do like the randomness of this game, I really do.
I know I'm not the world expert on FF6, but I've played and enjoyed hard Rom Hacks for FF6. I understand the idea of hard difficulty, and how it works. I played FF6HardType, I know difficulty.
I played Return of the Dark Sorcerer when it was even harder, and sometimes easier.
I understand that randomness is well, random.
I don't mean to complain like a crazy person.
I just want to provide my view on things, from the perspective of a person with Asperger's, playing a game that makes me both happy and easily frustrated.
Throw being OP in the game isn't Abyss's fault.
Just as long as the randomness doesn't make the game decide to give everything in the WoR Heartless Angel, it's fine. Asperger's Focus allows me to fully be more immersed in games I play. However, the side effect, you get burnt out on them quickly.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Tenkarider - 09-14-2015
Fair enough, despite i tend to "bite" when i hear Beyond Chaos and nerf in the same sentence, i'm not here to smash the requester(it might look in that way for someone
), i'm here to discuss, but i need to hear very convincing arguments, in order of approving. for example Meteor is quite reasonable as argument, the only reason i didn't pointed that on my own is probably because i didn't met any storyline boss that pwned me with meteor.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - DavidB1111 - 09-14-2015
I haven't met any storyline boss that smacked me silly with Meteor either.
I'm hoping I'm lucky and don't run into that.
But that is indeed a very powerful spell when enemies use it.
And yes, you do tend to bite, but I understand why.
Just don't bite off my head.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - Cecil188 - 09-14-2015
Well, generally, mandatory battles are unrandomized(consider the Leader and Grunts fight, in addition to bosses). By this, I refer to attack scripts, as some bosses may have a different inherent status effect or elemental properties. The exception to this is the final battle, which changes attacks more commonly(and generally for the best, I've found). I've seen Sleep's Merton being replaced by Kitty, as well as Face's Quake death counter being replaced by ForceField(useless as final attack in a battle). Tools did randomly gain HyperDrive and Meteo though(thank goodness he was still vulnerable to instant death!). Anyways, it's rather unlikely(and maybe impossible, though with a randomizer, nothing is impossible(cue Shia LaBeouf meme)) that a storyline boss will acquire Meteor as a skill.
RE: Official FF6: Beyond Chaos thread (randomizer) - DavidB1111 - 09-14-2015
Currently, I'm spending about a decade give or take finding DoomGaze and being able to chip away at his health, since he magically runs away every 3rd turn he gets, while regenerating constantly.
He has innate vanish, and innate reflect, and innate regen. Blarghh.
Also, how do you get Shadow again? I got the information about him being at the collisieum, but I don't know what weapon I need to bet.
I'm basically capable of hitting Doom Gaze maybe 4 times before he runs away, and that's really annoying.
update! Yay! I finally killed him.
Boo, Bahamut has nothing but HP +30%.